Mormon WikiLeaks (MormonLeaks)

[happyone]

I really don't remember much about the MTC* I do remember that my group was the first group to enter after the dedication of the main admin bldg and that I was highly disappointed that I didn't get to go to Hawaii As for speakers, we did have Paul Dunn speak (pre scandal) and an apostle spoke on Thanksgiving, but he obviously made a great impression, because I can't for the life of me remember who it was.

As far as who the president was, I would probably recognize the name if I heard it, but I don't remember right now

*it was the LTM at that time - English speaking missionaries went to Salt Lake for a week where the Conference Center is now.

[Mormon Red Death]

Am I the only one who has no idea who the President was of the MTC when they were there?

Shoot...I can only name one member of the district that I was in, and that's only because he was my comp.

Same for me and I was there from 5/31/95 to sometime in August. I only remember my one of the LGM where the speaker was talking about his daughter who died in a car accident who had a "watermelon smile". I cant remember if the the MTC president even spoke while I was institutionalized there.

[falafel]

Just watched the opening scene. I remember as an 8th grader thinking the basketball scenes were pretty bad, but I don't think I realized just how bad. Wow.

That's funny, I did the same thing. But then I watched Scott dribble home and I thought, "if he can run and dibble the ball, why does the game footage look so bad?"

[Donuthole]

That's funny, I did the same thing. But then I watched Scott dribble home and I thought, "if he can run and dibble the ball, why does the game footage look so bad?"

Because he can't run and dribble the ball? Watch again. Every two dribbles he picks up the ball with both hands and runs a few steps. Then starts dribbling again. That's a double-effing-dribble, Scott! Sidenote: I love that Pete from the Buttercream Gang is the leader of the street ballers.

[Northwestcoug]

What is it with these dogooders?!

LOL. That dad was quite the jerk before!

I just skimmed through it. 'Mr. Perkins', the homeless shelter guy, sure looks familiar. Has he acted in other films? Imdb does not help.

Anyone know? He has an extended scene around the 16 minute mark.

[SeattleUte]

You don't ruin anything. Knock it off.

Hey, I read Sapiens on your recommendation. Harari is great when he is recounting history and biology, but when he starts opining or getting philosophical, he is less interesting and sometimes just goofy. For example, his capitalism = religion was a huge stretch for me. And anything he said about animals was way over the top. As a result, I couldn't muster the energy to read Homo Deus.

Also, happy birthday!

Harari was terrific for testing my beliefs. What was fascinating is that he believes many things that I do, or starts from the same premises. Then he goes in unexpected directions and challenges not the truth of the premises, but reaches conclusions challenging whether they are the way things should be. For example, yes, the world is a better place than ever before for today’s humans, and the reason is capitalism and the scientific revolution. But at what terrible cost to the aborigines, the environment and animals? He doesn’t think that lower infant mortality today is worth that cost.

But my faith pulled through stronger than ever. And I found his books hugely entertaining. Now, for just pure faith promoting narrative, I read Steven Pinker. We are members of the religion and alike believers.

[Bo Diddley]

Ed Pinegar was mine. I really loved him.

He was my mission president in London South. I loved that guy from the day I met him. He's getting on in years, so we're having our last mission reunion ever this Friday. We had one 5 years ago, and it was great. At the end we had a meeting in the chapel. He spoke, and it was just like we were all back in the mission again.

My MTC mission president was George Durrant. He was awesome. As soon as he left the MTC, he was a Bishop over a young married Ward at BYU. My brother was called as one of his counselors, and was ordained a high priest at age 23.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[All-American]

Is Ed the bishop on that sacrament meeting tv show? or is that a different pinegar? seems like a good bishop, tbh.

Yup. My five-year-old daughter calls it "Fake Church." Followed at 9:30 by "People Singing Songs."

[wuapinmon]

This notion that you, or anyone of us are somehow special and therefore we know what the majority of church members believes about the brethren is equally faulty as a belief that there is no substance or practical value to priesthood authority and the power of episodic discernment they can have concerning the church. Especially, if we faithfully accept the foundational apostolic nature of it's origins.

Regardless the circumstance and regardless whether or not inspiration was available or headed in any manner relevant to that circumstance, individual choice (agency) cannot be taken from any one individual directly associated with the circumstance.

No doubt, this is a miserable circumstance to witness, but no more so than many others I have witnessed in my life time, that differ only in terms of scale and exposure.

I accept that it is my responsibility to work past this moment in time, and remain faithful in spite of it. Because there is no where else for me to go, if I am to be honest with myself concerning the many faith promoting experiences that confirm to me this is God's church and I am happier when I am engaged in it's mission, as directed by living prophets who are not infallible, yet worthy of my esteem and sustaining vote.

This is where I start pulling out my hair. It's not that any one person is special. It's that if Gordon B. Hinckley, counselor in the First Presidency, can't tell that Hofmann's stuff was fake, if he can't go to the Lord and pray about these documents and get a clear answer, using the mantle of his office, that these documents that show that Joseph Smith III was the actual heir to the presidency of the Church, not Brigham Young, or that Moroni was a glowing salamander, and not a resurrected angel, then, basically the entire idea that any of us can receive guidance from the Spirit is indicted. For if a "Special Witness" can be deceived about something so important, not to protect one or two future victims of Hofmann's bombs, but to protect the doctrine and reputation of the Church of You Know JESUS CHRIST, then, I ask, sincerely, what is the point of accepting the foundation apostolic nature of its origins, as you suggest we must do? How can I put faith in the ability of GBH to lead and guide the Church by the still small voice when he clearly did not in this case and a couple a few others? He was a good man, a righteous man, but so was my grandfather, and he did not make me sustain him as a prophet, seer, and revelator. He just made me say "sir" after yes and no, I couldn't read the newspaper before he'd read it, and I had to take my hat off inside when he was around. He did like to claim to know when the Asheville Tourists were going to win, but he was no more right about that than my stake presidents have been about how our home teaching programs are going to "double the size of our stake in two years."

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is where I start pulling out my hair. It's not that any one person is special. It's that if Gordon B. Hinckley, counselor in the First Presidency, can't tell that Hofmann's stuff was fake, if he can't go to the Lord and pray about these documents and get a clear answer, using the mantle of his office, that these documents that show that Joseph Smith III was the actual heir to the presidency of the Church, not Brigham Young, or that Moroni was a glowing salamander, and not a resurrected angel, then, basically the entire idea that any of us can receive guidance from the Spirit is indicted. For if a "Special Witness" can be deceived about something so important, not to protect one or two future victims of Hofmann's bombs, but to protect the doctrine and reputation of the Church of You Know JESUS CHRIST, then, I ask, sincerely, what is the point of accepting the foundation apostolic nature of its origins, as you suggest we must do? How can I put faith in the ability of GBH to lead and guide the Church by the still small voice when he clearly did not in this case and a couple a few others? He was a good man, a righteous man, but so was my grandfather, and he did not make me sustain him as a prophet, seer, and revelator. He just made me say "sir" after yes and no, I couldn't read the newspaper before he'd read it, and I had to take my hat off inside when he was around. He did like to claim to know when the Asheville Tourists were going to win, but he was no more right about that than my stake presidents have been about how our home teaching programs are going to "double the size of our stake in two years."

This where I start pulling out my hair. You don't want a prophet, you want a fortune teller. I don't believe it has ever worked that way, nor should it. Roll off a few magic tricks and there is no longer any role for faith.

[clackamascoug]

Someone tell me my mission president... August 1978. Our little group going to Oklahoma consisted of Elder Nelson, Elder Oliver, and Elder Green and myself.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Harari was terrific for testing my beliefs. What was fascinating is that he believes many things that I do, or starts from the same premises. Then he goes in unexpected directions and challenges not the truth of the premises, but reaches conclusions challenging whether they are the way things should be. For example, yes, the world is a better place than ever before for today’s humans, and the reason is capitalism and the scientific revolution. But at what terrible cost to the aborigines, the environment and animals? He doesn’t think that lower infant mortality today is worth that cost.

But my faith pulled through stronger than ever. And I found his books hugely entertaining. Now, for just pure faith promoting narrative, I read Steven Pinker. We are members of the religion and alike believers.

It was interesting book. In some parts I was blown away by his insight and clarity and breadth of knowledge. In other parts I was rolling my eyes.

Another example: I don't think his romanticization of hunter-gatherer societies was realistic. He talked about what a great happy adventure it must have been chasing after nuts and berries and wooly mammoths every day and oh-by-the-way, they had to kill most of their babies and old people and anyone else who was slow or inconvenient.

I also don't believe robots will take over the world in the next 100 years.

[Jeff Lebowski]

This topic still interests me even though nothing is really new. I think it's one of those topics that requires visitation from time to time. I also believe writing helps me reorder my thoughts from time to time. Thanks to those that have contributed. Just offering my own perspective, though in concept not different from others, writing the words helps me clarify for myself what I have read over time, constantly rebuilding after incorporating new information and nuance. Having been recently influenced by Peterson lectures, here's the latest bunch of crap I have to offer.

Great post, swampfrog. Thanks for typing that up.

[Bo Diddley]

This is where I start pulling out my hair. It's not that any one person is special. It's that if Gordon B. Hinckley, counselor in the First Presidency, can't tell that Hofmann's stuff was fake, if he can't go to the Lord and pray about these documents and get a clear answer, using the mantle of his office, that these documents that show that Joseph Smith III was the actual heir to the presidency of the Church, not Brigham Young, or that Moroni was a glowing salamander, and not a resurrected angel, then, basically the entire idea that any of us can receive guidance from the Spirit is indicted. For if a "Special Witness" can be deceived about something so important, not to protect one or two future victims of Hofmann's bombs, but to protect the doctrine and reputation of the Church of You Know JESUS CHRIST, then, I ask, sincerely, what is the point of accepting the foundation apostolic nature of its origins, as you suggest we must do? How can I put faith in the ability of GBH to lead and guide the Church by the still small voice when he clearly did not in this case and a couple a few others? He was a good man, a righteous man, but so was my grandfather, and he did not make me sustain him as a prophet, seer, and revelator. He just made me say "sir" after yes and no, I couldn't read the newspaper before he'd read it, and I had to take my hat off inside when he was around. He did like to claim to know when the Asheville Tourists were going to win, but he was no more right about that than my stake presidents have been about how our home teaching programs are going to "double the size of our stake in two years."

I believe that prophecy is dependent on the expediency of God. Were it expedient for Gordon B. Hinckley to discern the truth of Mark Hofmann's fraud, I think he would have. I believe that all of the prophets, seers and revelators will only prophesy, see or reveal when God wants them to. The Nephites' reply to King Benjamin was:

Mosiah 5:3 And we, ourselves, also, through the infinite goodness of God, and the manifestations of his Spirit, have great views of that which is to come; and were it expedient, we could prophesy of all things.

It is one thing to be filled with the spirit of prophecy, and quite another to actually prophesy. The first is the ability, and the second is the act, when moved by God.

It's the same with the priesthood. The priesthood could never heal someone if it is contrary to the will of God.

In Helaman 10, God gives Nephi the sealing power:

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

Either Nephi has demonstrated that he will not act contrary to the will of God, or that God, in his omniscience, can see that Nephi will not do so. God goes on to explain what remarkable things Nephi could do with that power.

[ByronMarchant]

This where I start pulling out my hair. You don't want a prophet, you want a fortune teller. I don't believe it has ever worked that way, nor should it. Roll off a few magic tricks and there is no longer any role for faith.

I'm with Lebowski here.

There would be no role for faith if there were any meaningful evidence.

In fact, I'll take it a step further: God needs to keep us guessing or else we might have TOO MUCH faith.