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  • #46
    Originally posted by Moliere View Post
    Yes, it has become sad. I even believe the intelligence agencies when they say Russia interfered with the election. Whether it was at Putins direction or some rogue hackers who knows? But they did hack and interfere.

    I guess I'm wondering "now what?" We aren't going to invalidate the election results. Trump is going to be president. No one can prove that the Russian hacking was what gave the election to Trump. I guess I'm not seeing what the best next step will be and it seems Obama doesn't know either.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It’s interesting to note that the conversation is not about the contents of the emails anymore. No disputes there, no one is claiming that they were falsified, it is just about how those emails were obtained. Emails that established that the Democrats are corrupt - from the DNC actively supporting one candidate over the other, collusion with the press about debate questions, and and on and on. It was a sickening peek behind the curtain (note: but I voted for Clinton anyway, with regret). The DNC didn’t have to act this way, they could have run a fair campaign, but they didn’t. Same about Clinton’s private email server. She could have avoided the whole issue by not doing it in the first place. To borrow from another thread, it’s like we have a pirated video of a DVD but instead of focusing on the theft and the thieves... we’re talking about the FBI warning at the beginning of the movie. But what else is Podesta (et al) supposed to do? They were caught and exposed, and now need to do anything to try and repair the damage. I agree... SAD!


    Originally posted by creekster View Post
    It wasn't hacking.
    Agree. This formulation, "hacked the election" is so imprecise as to be meaningless. Many will take this to mean that the vote count was altered or voting machines were compromised and no one is even claiming that. The formulation "the election was hacked" should not be used to discuss this situation in polite circles such as we have here (I'm looking at you Moliere!)... let alone in careful, critical journalism.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
    Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

      "Mitt was right all along. The russians are indeed our biggest threat."
      "All this russia hysteria by the democrats is laughable."

      (
      I've thought and said Mitt was right about Russia for awhile. Obama has been embarrassingly weak (just like W)when it comes to Russia especially.

      Comment


      • #48
        Republican voters' views on Putin have drastically changed.

        http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12865678...lls-republican

        "The number of Republicans who viewed Putin "very unfavorably" shrank from 51 percent in July 2014 to just 14 percent in December 2016.

        The number who view Putin favorably rose from 10 percent to 37 percent.
        "

        "Another tidbit: Republican voters view Hillary Clinton (-77) and Barack Obama (-64) far more unfavorably than Putin (-10), and Democratic voters also view Trump (-65) about as unfavorably as the Russian president (-62)."

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
          Republican voters' views on Putin have drastically changed.

          http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12865678...lls-republican

          "The number of Republicans who viewed Putin "very unfavorably" shrank from 51 percent in July 2014 to just 14 percent in December 2016.

          The number who view Putin favorably rose from 10 percent to 37 percent.
          "

          "Another tidbit: Republican voters view Hillary Clinton (-77) and Barack Obama (-64) far more unfavorably than Putin (-10), and Democratic voters also view Trump (-65) about as unfavorably as the Russian president (-62)."
          Now that is scary and just another reason to not belong to the GOP.


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
            It's moving from "it didn't happen" to "it's no big deal."
            No, the Russians hacking the voting machines in Detroit is, as VP Biden would put it, a big f'n deal... Those red SoBs need to pay for that!

            All the emails leaks is the dems own damn fault... but Keith Olbermann doesn't agree with me:

            "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
            "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
            "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              Honestly, I can't keep track of winners and losers anymore.

              "There is no hacking by the ruskies. This is a joke."
              "The russian hacking is obama's fault. He should have been a better president."

              "Obama should step up and show some guts for once and sanction the russians."
              "Obama should STFU and stay out of the way."

              "Mitt was right all along. The russians are indeed our biggest threat."
              "All this russia hysteria by the democrats is laughable."

              "The CIA is wrong. The FBI does not support their analysis about russian interference."
              "OK, the FBI is on board, but it clearly a result of political pressuring.

              It's all so confusing!
              And the waters will only get more muddy as intra-governmental wars begin in earnest when the PENIS is sworn in.
              "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

              "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by creekster View Post
                heck, we did this in lamost evry central american election (when we even allowed them to happen at all) for decades.
                Just in the NYTimes this week, this op ed:

                Now, America, You Know How Chileans Felt

                It is familiar, the outrage and alarm that many Americans are feeling at reports that Russia, according to a secret intelligence assessment, interfered in the United States election to help Donald J. Trump become president.


                I have been through this before, overwhelmed by a similar outrage and alarm.


                To be specific: On the morning of Oct. 22, 1970, in what was then my home in Santiago de Chile, my wife, Angélica, and I listened to a news flash on the radio. Gen. René Schneider, the head of Chile’s armed forces, had been shot by a commando on a street of the capital. He was not expected to survive.


                Angélica and I had the same automatic reaction: It’s the C.I.A., we said, almost in unison. We had no proof at the time — though evidence that we were right would eventually, and abundantly, surface — but we did not doubt that this was one more American attempt to subvert the will of the Chilean people.
                [...]
                In Chile, we did find out who was “behind it.” Thanks to the Church Committee and its valiant, bipartisan 1976 report, the world discovered the many crimes the C.I.A. had been committing, the multiple ways in which it had destroyed democracy elsewhere — in order, supposedly, to save the world from Communism.
                [...]
                The United States cannot in good faith decry what has been done to its decent citizens until it is ready to face what it did so often to the equally decent citizens of other nations. And it must firmly resolve never to engage in such imperious activities again.


                If ever there was a time for America to look at itself in the mirror, if ever there was a time of reckoning and accountability, it is now.
                http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/op...eans-felt.html
                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                  Republican voters' views on Putin have drastically changed.

                  http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12865678...lls-republican

                  "The number of Republicans who viewed Putin "very unfavorably" shrank from 51 percent in July 2014 to just 14 percent in December 2016.

                  The number who view Putin favorably rose from 10 percent to 37 percent.
                  "

                  "Another tidbit: Republican voters view Hillary Clinton (-77) and Barack Obama (-64) far more unfavorably than Putin (-10), and Democratic voters also view Trump (-65) about as unfavorably as the Russian president (-62)."
                  Not sure what point you are trying to prove here Frank... that Republicans are dumb?

                  Republicans nominated DONALD TRUMP to be the candidate for President of the United States and then ELECTED him. Case closed.
                  You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
                  Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

                  Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
                  You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                    Just in the NYTimes this week, this op ed:


                    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/op...eans-felt.html

                    Ted, is the Russian interference no big deal? If so, it isn't worth bringing up US hypocrisy.

                    The US' by-proxy assassination of Allende was despicable, even criminal. I imagine, though, a lot of people, even some who post here, weren't outraged Cold War crimes under the guise of fighting off communism.
                    I was reading about the Invasion of Grenada the other day. That doesn't get talked about nearly as much as other coup d'etats during the that period of time, but it a pretty unnecessary action imo.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                      Ted, is the Russian interference no big deal? If so, it isn't worth bringing up US hypocrisy.
                      The Russian hacking of the election machines in Detroit and fabrication of fake news is a big deal.


                      Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                      The US' by-proxy assassination of Allende was despicable, even criminal. I imagine, though, a lot of people, even some who post here, weren't outraged Cold War crimes under the guise of fighting off communism.
                      I was reading about the Invasion of Grenada the other day. That doesn't get talked about nearly as much as other coup d'etats during the that period of time, but it a pretty unnecessary action imo.
                      The CIA and NSA are guilty of a lot of nasty stuff. Libertarians have been gripping about this shit for years. Republicans never seem to care. Dems only seem to care when they are not in office. For example, Obama pledge to scrap the so called patriot act and stop the crap with the drone bombing... We still have the patriot act and the drones keep bombing.
                      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
                        Not sure what point you are trying to prove here Frank... that Republicans are dumb?

                        Republicans nominated DONALD TRUMP to be the candidate for President of the United States and then ELECTED him. Case closed.
                        I'm not sure Trump winning the election makes this a moot point. I'm not sure why his victory makes looking into an unprecedenting foreign propaganda/information warfare campaign at best and full blown intel operation at worst, designed to impact the US election at worst, is irreverent.

                        A majority of republicans didn't like Putin and now a big majority do like him. The only thing that changed with regard to Putin was his support for Trump.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                          A majority of republicans didn't like Putin and now a big majority do like him. The only thing that changed with regard to Putin was his support for Trump.
                          Ergo, RUSSIA HACKED THE ELECTION!!!

                          #logicfail
                          You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
                          Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski

                          Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
                          You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                            A majority of republicans didn't like Putin and now a big majority do like him. The only thing that changed with regard to Putin was his support for Trump.
                            I don't buy it. Polling is unreliable (thought that should be clear by now) and especially on a vague issue like this. A big majority of Republicans didn't magically start liking Putin.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
                              Ergo, RUSSIA HACKED THE ELECTION!!!

                              #logicfail
                              I got to hand it to you, you are the most consistent Russia apologist on the board.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by YOhio View Post
                                I don't buy it. Polling is unreliable (thought that should be clear by now) and especially on a vague issue like this. A big majority of Republicans didn't magically start liking Putin.
                                The Econimist was involved in commissioning that poll. They are one of the better international affairs magazines out there.

                                Even on here you have a lot of folks who think we can be friends with Russia. Fwiw, I think Putin would have gotten a similar bump from democrats if he was backing Clinton. Partisanship is powerful.

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