Comrade Trump

[BlueK]

https://www.wired.com/story/why-trum...t-carter-page/

WHY TRUMP WON'T STOP TALKING ABOUT THE CARTER PAGE WIRETAP

“I don’t see anything that supports chairman Nunes’s or the president’s allegations that the FISA process was misused in any way in the documents that were released,” says Carrie Cordero, an adjunct professor at Georgetown Law School and former DoJ national security lawyer. “The information that was released does indicate that all of the proper law and procedure and process was followed, and that there was a fulsome, factual explanation provided to the court.”

Page was a person of interest for the FBI and NSA years before Trump even thought about running for president. If he didn't want to attract some attention from national security he maybe should have not been as eager to hang out with known Russian intelligence agents. It kind of goes with the territory. Fortunately for him he's apparently too much of a goofball (watch an interview with him to see that) for the Russians to have concluded he was of much use to them, and he doesn't seem to have gotten into any real trouble.

[tooblue]

Page was a person of interest for the FBI and NSA years before Trump even thought about running for president. If he didn't want to attract some attention from national security he maybe should have not been as eager to hang out with known Russian intelligence agents. It kind of goes with the territory. Fortunately for him he's apparently too much of a goofball (watch an interview with him to see that) for the Russians to have concluded he was of much use to them, and he doesn't seem to have gotten into any real trouble.

Don't tell Uncle Ted et al ... that doesn't fit the conspiracy narrative. And as for Page supposedly not having gotten into any real trouble, that's not what is interesting about the article. It's the fact that, per the well reasoned arguments presented in it, the FISA process was not misused in any way.

[BlueK]

Don't tell Uncle Ted et al ... that doesn't fit the conspiracy narrative. And as for Page supposedly not having gotten into any real trouble, that's not what is interesting about the article. It's the fact that, per the well reasoned arguments presented in it, the FISA process was not misused in any way.

Agreed. The law was followed. There is zero evidence that it was applied incorrectly in this case. Whether the FISA law is good or not is a different discussion, but even if you think there shouldn't be such a law, it doesn't discredit the Mueller probe. Some of these agents Page was hanging out with were later convicted in US courts. One even spent some time in jail.

[Uncle Ted]

Agreed. The law was followed. There is zero evidence that it was applied incorrectly in this case. Whether the FISA law is good or not is a different discussion, but even if you think there shouldn't be such a law, it doesn't discredit the Mueller probe. Some of these agents Page was hanging out with were later convicted in US courts. One even spent some time in jail.

The FISA court is either full of dumbass judges or they just rubber stamp anything coming out of the DoJ. The one thing that is sure the FISA court clearly needs to be revamped or shutdown completely. The applications were heavily dependent on the Steele Dossier (a product of the Clinton campaign), relied on hearsay from sub-sources of unknown reliability, and even used news outlets and their unverified media reports. This is a joke and makes the judges in the FISA court look like a bunch of damn fools. Revamping needs to be done before Drumpf turns the table on the Dems.

As for the Mueller probe hows the collusion evidence coming? Isn't that what Mueller is to be focusing on? i.e., "any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump". Oh wait... there is a link with that Russian spy and the president:

Embedded Tweet

Collusiion!!!

[PaloAltoCougar]

Ted, it's certainly possible there wasn't any collusion, but don't you agree that the meeting by Don Jr. and others on the Trump campaign team in Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government in the hope of collecting dirt on Hillary was an attempt to collude (no crime, but enough smoke to justify looking into other efforts)? And why did Trump on Air Force One help prepare a false description of the meeting for the press, and then deny having had anything to do with the description?

[Moliere]

Agreed. The law was followed. There is zero evidence that it was applied incorrectly in this case. Whether the FISA law is good or not is a different discussion, but even if you think there shouldn't be such a law, it doesn't discredit the Mueller probe. Some of these agents Page was hanging out with were later convicted in US courts. One even spent some time in jail.

I’m no expert here, but I’ve seen that the document made public was incredibly heavily redacted. Is it possible to say there is zero evidence the law was misapplied in this case without being able to read most of it.

[Northwestcoug]

Ted, it's certainly possible there wasn't any collusion, but don't you agree that the meeting by Don Jr. and others on the Trump campaign team in Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government in the hope of collecting dirt on Hillary was an attempt to collude (no crime, but enough smoke to justify looking into other efforts)? And why did Trump on Air Force One help prepare a false description of the meeting for the press, and then deny having had anything to do with the description?

We all admire your willingness to repeatedly engage with UT in good faith. But you have to know by now that his response will not meaningfully address any of your issues, and will instead talk about Hillary or Obama.

But keep trying!

[BlueK]

I’m no expert here, but I’ve seen that the document made public was incredibly heavily redacted. Is it possible to say there is zero evidence the law was misapplied in this case without being able to read most of it.

Zero evidence that has surfaced so far. The most logical conclusion to be made right now is this is just a smokescreen thrown out there by Trump with help from clownboy Nunes.

Page was being observed since two thousand freaking thirteen because of the people he liked to hang out with. This isn't redacted. He didn't just start to get followed after the dossier, so as far as trying to use Page being observed to prove something wrong with Mueller's investigation, everything about this argument is kind of moot, isn't it? The chronology doesn't work.

[Commando]

Ted, it's certainly possible there wasn't any collusion, but don't you agree that the meeting by Don Jr. and others on the Trump campaign team in Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government in the hope of collecting dirt on Hillary was an attempt to collude (no crime, but enough smoke to justify looking into other efforts)? And why did Trump on Air Force One help prepare a false description of the meeting for the press, and then deny having had anything to do with the description?

It's not about collusion-- there is evidence of Russian interference and Trump is/has been deflecting and obstructing the investigation. That's where the meat is at in my opinion. Asking for a bit of a "secret combination" if you will with Comey in order to ease up on Flynn?

Talking about this always puts me in a bad mood. Is there a video of Trump falling down a flight of stairs or something to cheer me up?

[Flystripper]

We all admire your willingness to repeatedly engage with UT in good faith. But you have to know by now that his response will not meaningfully address any of your issues, and will instead talk about Hillary or Obama.

But keep trying!

Ha! How does one address a line of code in good faith?

[Northwestcoug]

Ha! How does one address a line of code in good faith?

[frank ryan]

I’m no expert here, but I’ve seen that the document made public was incredibly heavily redacted. Is it possible to say there is zero evidence the law was misapplied in this case without being able to read most of it.

Nunes never read the source material for his own memo. He has been running interference for Trump all along. He is trying to investigate the investigators rather than Trump or anyone connected to him.
https://www.businessinsider.com/devi...igation-2018-2

The Senate Intel chair thinks the FISA warrant was handled just fine. Burr breaks with Nunes: 'Sound reasons' for judges to approve FISA warrant

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ant/index.html

[Uncle Ted]

Ted, it's certainly possible there wasn't any collusion, but don't you agree that the meeting by Don Jr. and others on the Trump campaign team in Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government in the hope of collecting dirt on Hillary was an attempt to collude (no crime, but enough smoke to justify looking into other efforts)?

I still would like to see the dirt collected on Hillary. Talk is cheap but the actual dirt is proof. (OMG! Drumpf Jr talked to a Russian!) The only dirt collected on a presidential candidate by the use of unregistered foreign agents (Fusion GPS, Christopher Steele) was paid for by the Clinton campaign. The "dirt" turned out to be false and, now we learn, that was the pretty much the entire justification for wiretapping a presidential campaign.

Hillary and the Orbis Dossier


The most under covered story of Russia Gate is the interconnection between the Clinton campaign, an unregistered foreign agent of Russia headquartered in DC (Fusion GPS), and the Christopher Steele Orbis dossier. This connection has raised the question of whether Kremlin prepared the dossier as part of a disinformation campaign to sow chaos in the US political system. If ordered and paid for by Hillary Clinton associates, Russia Gate is turned on its head as collusion between Clinton operatives (not Trump’s) and Russian intelligence. Russia Gate becomes Hillary Gate.

Neither the New York Times, Washington Post, nor CNN has covered this explosive story. Two op-eds have appeared in the Wall Street Journal (Holman Jenkins and David Satter). The possible Russian-intelligence origins of the Steele dossier have been raised only in conservative publications, such as in The Federalist and National Review.


The Fusion story has been known since Senator Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) sent a heavily-footnoted letter to the Justice Department on March 31, 2017 demanding for his Judiciary Committee all relevant documents on Fusion GPS, the company that managed the Steele dossier against then-candidate Donald Trump. Grassley writes to justify his demand for documents that: “The issue is of particular concern to the Committee given that when Fusion GPS reportedly was acting as an unregistered agent of Russian interests, it appears to have been simultaneously overseeing the creation of the unsubstantiated dossier of allegations of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulrod.../#32ba2c625cf6

Wasn't there enough smoke to justify looking into these efforts? Did any of the dumbass FISA court judges question the source of the Steele Dossier? If the judges are this stupid then this court needs to be shutdown. The FBI/DoJ should never be given this much power.

And why did Trump on Air Force One help prepare a false description of the meeting for the press, and then deny having had anything to do with the description?

I don't know... Maybe it is like the false shit that the Obama administration was pushing after Benghanzi:

GOP: WH pushed Benghazi video explanation despite eyewitnesses

The GOP-led House Benghazi committee says the Obama administration claimed an anti-Muslim video was responsible for the 2012 attack, even though that explanation did not reflect eyewitness or real-time reports.


Portions of the long-awaited report reviewed by Fox News showed that one U.S. agent at an American outpost in Benghazi told the committee he first heard "some kind of chanting," followed by explosions and gunfire and dozens of armed people rushing into the compound.


Another official, a senior watch offer at the State Department's diplomatic security command, described the event that day as "a full on attack against our compound," according to the report. The agent added that he didn't see or hear a protest prior to the attack.
“None of the information coming directly from the agents on the ground in Benghazi during the attacks mentioned anything about a video or a protest. The firsthand accounts made their way to the office of the Secretary through multiple channels quickly,” the report concluded.
[...]

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...ite-eyewitness

Of course, the Obama administration continued to double down with their video story even after everyone and their dog knew it had nothing to do with any video.

[Uncle Ted]

Zero evidence that has surfaced so far. The most logical conclusion to be made right now is this is just a smokescreen thrown out there by Trump with help from clownboy Nunes.

Page was being observed since two thousand freaking thirteen because of the people he liked to hang out with. This isn't redacted. He didn't just start to get followed after the dossier, so as far as trying to use Page being observed to prove something wrong with Mueller's investigation, everything about this argument is kind of moot, isn't it? The chronology doesn't work.

Clownboy Nunes was right about the FISA applications. Now Nunes is pushing to eliminate the redactions. Who from the dems' side of the isle is pushing for transparency as well? Speaks volumes.

[PaloAltoCougar]

I still would like to see the dirt collected on Hillary. Talk is cheap but the actual dirt is proof. (OMG! Drumpf Jr talked to a Russian!) ...

As I continue to bear my Sisyphean burden of responding to your deft deflections, I'll say again that what actually came of the meeting is irrelevant to the question of whether Don Jr. et al. were attempting to coordinate with Russian officials, which they manifestly were. And yes, that in and of itself isn't collusion, but if a law enforcement official sees evidence that someone is attempting to engage in wrongdoing, shouldn't investigators investigate? Or should the investigators simply take the would-be colluder's word that he's never done anything wrong, even when that word was given in a tissue of lies written on Air Force One? You and Trump plainly think the latter is sufficient to let things slide. I'm glad the Department of Justice does not.