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Thread: Comrade Trump

  1. #151
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  2. #152
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    So far, Malik, so far.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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  3. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    So far, Malik, so far.
    Also that problematic dude Trump calls a "low level volunteer," who if you read the plea agreement basically admitted collusion as part of his guilty plea for lying to the FBI. He's been secretly working with Mueller for a few months now, so it seems probable they've got more on a bunch of other people already. Trump seems to be no match for Mueller's experience and intellect.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017 at 07:42 AM.

  4. #154
    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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  5. #155
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Also that problematic dude Trump calls a "low level volunteer," who if you read the plea agreement basically admitted collusion as part of his guilty plea for lying to the FBI. He's been secretly working with Mueller for a few months now, so it seems probable they've got more on a bunch of other people already. Trump seems to be no match for Mueller's experience and intellect.
    What about his stipulation and plea is basically an admission of collusion?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    They should lock McMuffin up for all the debt he has run up. At least he will be sticking most of it to the lawyers!
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  7. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    What about his stipulation and plea is basically an admission of collusion?
    read the plea agreement he signed.


    https://www.lawfareblog.com/george-p...plea-agreement


    The lying they got him to plead guilty to was about what he told investigators about when he met with Russian officials to get "thousands" of Clinton emails for the purpose of helping the campaign. It turns out this meeting actually happened when he was officially working for the campaign and not before, which is what he lied about.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017 at 08:47 AM.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    read the plea agreement he signed.
    TL; DR

    Didn't he do the same thing that Donald Jr did? i.e., talk to some Russian woman who claimed to have the dirt on Hillary? (And when is the FBI going to release the dirt?!?) The mistake he made was lying to the FBI. I don't think they like that very much.

    BTW, how old is this Drumpf Aide? Looks like he is just hit puberty....

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    TL; DR

    Didn't he do the same thing that Donald Jr did? i.e., talk to some Russian woman who claimed to have the dirt on Hillary? (And when is the FBI going to release the dirt?!?) The mistake he made was lying to the FBI. I don't think they like that very much.

    BTW, how old is this Drumpf Aide? Looks like he is just hit puberty....

    His mistake was lying to the FBI, but also what he lied about. Flynn lied to the FBI also but they haven't rung him up for it yet, maybe because it was only about boring sanctions stuff. Now it's probably likely they have dirt on others now as well as no one knew he was cooperating with the feds...like recorded incriminating conversations with other people from the campaign perhaps.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017 at 08:58 AM.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    His mistake was lying to the FBI, but also what he lied about. Flynn lied to the FBI also but they haven't rung him up for it yet, maybe because it was only about boring sanctions stuff. Now it's probably likely they have dirt on others now as well as no one knew he was cooperating with the feds...like recorded conversations with other people from the campaign perhaps.
    What did he lie about?

    NPR doesn't want to tell me either...
    While Papadopoulos's interactions on behalf of the campaign on their face don't seem to have broken any laws, it was the fact that he allegedly lied about them to the FBI that got him into trouble. The charging documents say Papadopoulos mischaracterized the content and the timing of his interactions with both people mentioned.
    http://www.npr.org/2017/10/31/560835...e-papadopoulos

    Maybe he was "drunk and gay" when he talked to the FBI.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  11. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    What did he lie about?

    NPR doesn't want to tell me either...

    http://www.npr.org/2017/10/31/560835...e-papadopoulos

    Maybe he was "drunk and gay" when he talked to the FBI.
    It's in the plea agreement. He lied about when he met with the Russians to get the emails to help the Trump campaign. He tried to say it happened before he was actually part of the campaign, when in fact it was during the time was working for them.

    There are only two ways Trump fans are going to be able to go with this (at least until others are implicated anyway):

    1. let's change the slippery definition of "collusion" so it doesn't fit this situation OR
    2. Collusion isn't so bad.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  12. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    It's in the plea agreement. He lied about when he met with the Russians to get the emails to help the Trump campaign. He tried to say it happened before he was actually part of the campaign, when in fact it was during the time was working for them.

    There are only two ways Trump fans are going to be able to go with this (at least until others are implicated anyway):

    1. let's change the slippery definition of "collusion" so it doesn't fit this situation OR
    2. Collusion isn't so bad.
    3. Hillary
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  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    It's in the plea agreement. He lied about when he met with the Russians to get the emails to help the Trump campaign. He tried to say it happened before he was actually part of the campaign, when in fact it was during the time was working for them.

    There are only two ways Trump fans are going to be able to go with this (at least until others are implicated anyway):

    1. let's change the slippery definition of "collusion" so it doesn't fit this situation OR
    2. Collusion isn't so bad.
    Looks like you're leaning toward the second option.

  14. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    3. Hillary
    yeah, but that's kind of irrelevant. If I'm arrested for drug possession it doesn't help to say one of my friends uses drugs too.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    It's in the plea agreement. He lied about when he met with the Russians to get the emails to help the Trump campaign. He tried to say it happened before he was actually part of the campaign, when in fact it was during the time was working for them.

    There are only two ways Trump fans are going to be able to go with this (at least until others are implicated anyway):

    1. let's change the slippery definition of "collusion" so it doesn't fit this situation OR
    2. Collusion isn't so bad.
    So he got some "dirt" on Clinton which we haven't seen (just where are those 30,000+ emails?) and that made Hillary lose to the worst presidential candidate in the history of these United States?

    If these are the same emails that were published on wikileaks then while that made some good bedtime reading they didn't make Clinton lose to Drumpf. Comey's announcement of finding Clinton emails on Weinerman's laptop was far more damaging then any of those emails. Therefore, they must be talking about some far worse emails. Thanks to the freedom of information act we should be able to see those emails.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    So he got some "dirt" on Clinton which we haven't seen (just where are those 30,000+ emails?) and that made Hillary lose to the worst presidential candidate in the history of these United States?

    If these are the same emails that were published on wikileaks then while that made some good bedtime reading they didn't make Clinton lose to Drumpf. Comey's announcement of finding Clinton emails on Weinerman's laptop was far more damaging then any of those emails. Therefore, they must be talking about some far worse emails. Thanks to the freedom of information act we should be able to see those emails.
    I guess if we can't agree that a presidential candidate's team talking with a foreign adversary about how they can help influence our electoral process is kind of scary, then I don't know what else to say. Ultimately this is going to end up being a political question more than a legal one.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    I guess if we can't agree that a presidential candidate's team talking with a foreign adversary about how they can help influence our electoral process is kind of scary, then I don't know what else to say. Ultimately this is going to end up being a political question more than a legal one.
    I guess it is really up to what he did with the dirt emails... Maybe he use them to blackmail Hillary to not campaign in Wisconsin and all those other states that she didn't set foot in and then lost.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  18. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I guess it is really up to what he did with the dirt emails... Maybe he use them to blackmail Hillary to not campaign in Wisconsin and all those other states that she didn't set foot in and then lost.
    This is where I apparently differ. I don't care whether it worked or didn't work. To me, the slimy act of teaming with a country that doesn't like us to help gain political power is bad enough, whether it can be proven that it helped a huge amount or didn't. Trump does have something in common with Putin though. They both seem interested in eroding democratic norms here and in other countries.

  19. #169
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    read the plea agreement he signed.


    https://www.lawfareblog.com/george-p...plea-agreement


    The lying they got him to plead guilty to was about what he told investigators about when he met with Russian officials to get "thousands" of Clinton emails for the purpose of helping the campaign. It turns out this meeting actually happened when he was officially working for the campaign and not before, which is what he lied about.
    I read the plea and the stipulation before I asked. That was why I asked. I am not sure why you are convinced this stip evidences collusion. It certainly shows this guy was nosing around with Russians and looking to get information about Clinton and to arrange a meeting with Trump and the Russians, but there are a few inconvenient facts for your view:

    1. Trump never met the Russians.
    2. Trump never received any of the emails.
    3. The supposed highly connected Russians referenced in the stip never introduced Papadopoulos to the Russian Ambassador.

    Now there might be plenty more to come that will show there was a collusive effort by the campaign, but this stipulation simply does not constitute such evidence. Over-claiming its import and content is not something that is very useful in this discussion. It is also not something the special prosecutor is doing. I think this plea and stip prove only what they say. Let Mueller finish his job and see what happens without adding unsupported and hyperbolic speculation.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    I guess if we can't agree that a presidential candidate's team talking with a foreign adversary about how they can help influence our electoral process is kind of scary, then I don't know what else to say. Ultimately this is going to end up being a political question more than a legal one.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    This is where I apparently differ. I don't care whether it worked or didn't work. To me, the slimy act of teaming with a country that doesn't like us to help gain political power is bad enough, whether it can be proven that it helped a huge amount or didn't. Trump does have something in common with Putin though. They both seem interested in eroding democratic norms here and in other countries.
    Oh, so you are saying they just talked about influencing the election and maybe didn't do anything. Kind of like the little chat that Obama had with the Putin's minion on the hot mike about having more flexibility to be chums after the election. Of course, not to mention, Obama told us in the presidential debate that the Ruskies were also nothing to worry about...



    So just talking to the Russians is enough to make you uneasy? If so, where were in you in 2012?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  21. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I read the plea and the stipulation before I asked. That was why I asked. I am not sure why you are convinced this stip evidences collusion. It certainly shows this guy was nosing around with Russians and looking to get information about Clinton and to arrange a meeting with Trump and the Russians, but there are a few inconvenient facts for your view:

    1. Trump never met the Russians.
    2. Trump never received any of the emails.
    3. The supposed highly connected Russians referenced in the stip never introduced Papadopoulos to the Russian Ambassador.

    Now there might be plenty more to come that will show there was a collusive effort by the campaign, but this stipulation simply does not constitute such evidence. Over-claiming its import and content is not something that is very useful in this discussion. It is also not something the special prosecutor is doing. I think this plea and stip prove only what they say. Let Mueller finish his job and see what happens without adding unsupported and hyperbolic speculation.
    I didn't say this was all there was or needed to be to bring down the presidency.

  22. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Oh, so you are saying they just talked about influencing the election and maybe didn't do anything. Kind of like the little chat that Obama had with the Putin's minion on the hot mike about having more flexibility to be chums after the election. Of course, not to mention, Obama told us in the presidential debate that the Ruskies were also nothing to worry about...



    So just talking to the Russians is enough to make you uneasy? If so, where were in you in 2012?
    I don't care what Obama thought.

  23. #173
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    I didn't say this was all there was or needed to be to bring down the presidency.
    It is also not collusion.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  24. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    It is also not collusion.
    Because you classify what we know so far as not being large enough in scale to meet your standard of what "collusion" is. That's fine. It's obviously an ongoing investigation, and making this guy's plea public right now is clearly part of Mueller's strategy for moving it forward.

  25. #175
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Because you classify what we know so far as not being large enough in scale to meet your standard of what "collusion" is.
    Scale? It has nothing to do with scale. It has to do with what is here admitted to have taken place. There was no meeting. Talking about maybe meeting but then not actually meeting is not collusion. You have to actually do something to collude. It might have occurred here, to be sure, but nothing in the plea agreement or the stipulation constitutes an admission of collusion.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  26. #176

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    ok, maybe better said, we at least have clear intent of wanting to work with the Russians now from two different places: Papadopoulos and Don jr,, Kushner and Manafort on the other occasion. How many more were there? We don't know yet.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-31-2017 at 11:06 AM.

  27. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Scale? It has nothing to do with scale. It has to do with what is here admitted to have taken place. There was no meeting. Talking about maybe meeting but then not actually meeting is not collusion. You have to actually do something to collude. It might have occurred here, to be sure, but nothing in the plea agreement or the stipulation constitutes an admission of collusion.
    you mean other than the meeting at trump tower between kremlin associates and donald trump, jr and other prominent campaign members to discuss information they hoped would be damaging to the hrc campaign?
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  28. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    you mean other than the meeting at trump tower between kremlin associates and donald trump, jr and other prominent campaign members to discuss information they hoped would be damaging to the hrc campaign?
    nope still not collusion bro the russian collusion story is a low iq tell
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  29. #179
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    you mean other than the meeting at trump tower between kremlin associates and donald trump, jr and other prominent campaign members to discuss information they hoped would be damaging to the hrc campaign?
    BlueK began by asserting the plea and stipulation constituted an admission of collusion. It does not. My post, which you quoted, specifically states that there is nothing in the plea and stipulation that constitutes collusion. The meeting(s) you are talking about, whether or not they constitute collusion (and I don't think they do), are not referenced in either the plea or the stipulation. Try to keep up.

    Looking to foreign sources for dirt, and even paying for it, is not collusion. I think hrc and the DNC would agree with that conclusion.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  30. #180

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    You know who also doesn't apparently believe Trump colluded with Russia?

    James Comey.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/News/wo...-a7778161.html
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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