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Thread: Comrade Trump

  1. #1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    hmm... I wonder why the FBI would do something like that?

    The FBI would do something like that because they suspect your idol of being a foreign agent. You sound like Alex Jones.
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  2. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    The FBI would do something like that because they suspect your idol of being a foreign agent. You sound like Alex Jones.
    Really? Why do progressives trust police states so much?
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  3. #1653

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    Trump has been supressing details of his conversations with Putin. That's damning and scandalous stuff. Not nothingburger, poor victim of the MSM media stuff. From WaPo:


    Trump has concealed details of his face-to-face encounters with Putin from senior officials in administration

    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi*mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference. ...

    Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III is thought to be in the final stages of an investigation that has focused largely on whether Trump or his associates conspired with Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign. The new details about Trump’s continued secrecy underscore the extent to which little is known about his communications with Putin since becoming president.

    The concerns have been compounded by actions and positions Trump has taken as president that are seen as favorable to the Kremlin. He has dismissed Russia’s election interference as a “hoax,” suggested that Russia was entitled to annex Crimea, repeatedly attacked NATO allies, resisted efforts to impose sanctions on Moscow, and begun to pull U.S. forces out of Syria — a move that critics see as effectively ceding ground to Russia.

    At the same time, Trump’s decision to fire Comey and other attempts to contain the ongoing Russia investigation led the bureau in May 2017 to launch a counterintelligence investigation into whether he was seeking to help Russia and if so, why, a step first reported by the New York Times.

    It is not clear whether Trump has taken notes from interpreters on other occasions, but several officials said they were never able to get a reliable readout of the president’s two-hour meeting in Helsinki. Unlike in Hamburg, Trump allowed no Cabinet officials or any aides to be in the room for that conversation.

    Trump also had other private conversations with Putin at meetings of global leaders outside the presence of aides. He spoke at length with Putin at a banquet at the same 2017 global conference in Hamburg, where only Putin’s interpreter was present. Trump also had a brief conversation with *Putin at a Group of 20 summit in Buenos Aires last month.

    Trump generally has allowed aides to listen to his phone conversations with Putin, although Russia has often been first to disclose those calls when they occur and release statements characterizing them in broad terms favorable to the Kremlin.

    In an email, Tillerson said that he “was present for the entirety of the two presidents’ official bilateral meeting in Hamburg,” but he declined to discuss the meeting and did not respond to questions about whether Trump had instructed the interpreter to remain silent or had taken the interpreter’s notes.

    In a news conference afterward, Tillerson said that the Trump-Putin meeting lasted more than two hours, covered the war in Syria and other subjects, and that Trump had “pressed President *Putin on more than one occasion regarding Russian involvement” in election interference. “President Putin denied such involvement, as I think he has in the past,” Tillerson said

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.7970a9b00e95
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  4. #1654
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Really? Why do progressives trust police states so much?
    Aside from being just bad management and diplomatic practice to hold meetings or calls with foreign leaders without staff or other attendees to advise and at least take notes, Trump displayed/displays many traits of someone who is compromised. I'm pretty sure if anyone else in a national security position did what Trump has done, he/she would come under special scrutiny and depending on the outcome, could likely lose his/her security clearance.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Aside from being just bad management and diplomatic practice to hold meetings or calls with foreign leaders without staff or other attendees to advise and at least take notes, Trump displayed/displays many traits of someone who is compromised. I'm pretty sure if anyone else in a national security position did what Trump has done, he/she would come under special scrutiny and depending on the outcome, could likely lose his/her security clearance.
    What security protocol has he violated? I have not followed. What examples have you seen where an analogous violation has resulted in the forfeiture of security clearance? I am interested in your knowledge of the actual violations rather those apparently leaked through "secure media reports."
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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  6. #1656

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    What security protocol has he violated? I have not followed.
    Clearly.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  7. #1657
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    What security protocol has he violated? I have not followed. What examples have you seen where an analogous violation has resulted in the forfeiture of security clearance? I am interested in your knowledge of the actual violations rather those apparently leaked through "secure media reports."
    Meeting alone multiple times with an agent/agents of certain adversarial foreign governments (Russia is on the list) and hiding the nature of the meetings would be at the top of that list and trigger further scrutiny.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  8. #1658
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Yeah this is outrageous. Even by bizarro trump standards.
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  9. #1659

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yeah this is outrageous. Even by bizarro trump standards.
    Let's just hope the Mueller report sees the light of day.
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  10. #1660

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    What security protocol has he violated? I have not followed. What examples have you seen where an analogous violation has resulted in the forfeiture of security clearance? I am interested in your knowledge of the actual violations rather those apparently leaked through "secure media reports."
    For a president of a Constitutional republic with democratic processes like the US has, it is completely unacceptable for him to go into meetings with the head of state from another country, especially one that is as shady and un-trustworthy as Russia, and actively try to prevent anyone else in the administration to know what was discussed. That is not the sign of a leader who has nothing illegal or nefarious to hide. You should start paying attention. This really isn't about a disagreement on policy or liberal vs. conservative or democrat vs. republican. This is a president whose actions are consistently showing a pattern of putting his own personal and business interests ahead of the country, about which he has continually and blatantly been caught lying about -- "I have no business interests in Russia..."
    Last edited by BlueK; 01-14-2019 at 08:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yeah this is outrageous. Even by bizarro trump standards.
    Ted Cruz says "who cares?" to the idea that Trump could be a Russian asset.




    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/polit...sia/index.html
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  12. #1662

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Ted Cruz says "who cares?" to the idea that Trump could be a Russian asset.




    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/13/polit...sia/index.html
    This piece does bring up some relevant questions about Trump's behavior:

    "Even if you ignore all of those facts about the Mueller investigation, there's still one question I keep coming back to over the last 48 hours: Why did Trump go out of his way to ensure that no records of his meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin exist?
    These two paragraphs, from The Washington Post's Greg Miller, are staggering stuff:

    "President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said....

    "The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States' main adversaries."

    WHAT?

    Think of that decision for a minute. The dark cloud of Russia's involvement in the 2016 election has followed Trump since almost his first day in office. The US intelligence community concluded unanimously almost two years ago that the Russians actively sought to interfere in the election to help Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Any number of his past associates on the campaign -- and some within his administration -- have pleaded guilty to lying to Mueller about the nature and breadth of their of their interactions with the Russians. His top three campaign advisers -- Paul Manafort, Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner -- met with Russians at Trump Tower in June 2016 under the promise that the Russians had dirt on Clinton. At a news conference following their summit in Helsinki, Trump sheltered Putin and Russia from blame in the election interference operations, insisting that the Russian president said he didn't do it and there was enough blame to go around on all sides.

    There's more, but you get the idea. In a vacuum, the President of the United States going above and beyond to shield his communications with the Russian president would be concerning. Given what we know about the Trump campaign and Russia, it's downright alarming.

    Now, back to my unanswered question: Why, if you are Trump, would you purposely shield your conversations with Putin even from your own aides? Why would you take notes from a translator at one encounter and urge that person not to reveal what transpired -- even to your senior aides? Why would you, as Miller notes in his story, ensure that "there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump's face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years.

    Add it up and you get this: If Trump really didn't do ANYTHING wrong in relation to Russia, the dumbest thing he could possibly do is what he did -- actively work to scotch the official record of any evidence of what he and Putin have talked about over the past two years. It's literally the most guilty looking thing he could do."

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/polit...ler/index.html
    Last edited by BlueK; 01-14-2019 at 10:04 AM.

  13. #1663

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    This piece does bring up some relevant questions about Trump's behavior:

    "Even if you ignore all of those facts about the Mueller investigation, there's still one question I keep coming back to over the last 48 hours: Why did Trump go out of his way to ensure that no records of his meetings with Russian President Vladimir Putin exist?
    These two paragraphs, from The Washington Post's Greg Miller, are staggering stuff:

    "President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladimir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said....

    "The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States' main adversaries."

    WHAT?

    Think of that decision for a minute. The dark cloud of Russia's involvement in the 2016 election has followed Trump since almost his first day in office. The US intelligence community concluded unanimously almost two years ago that the Russians actively sought to interfere in the election to help Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Any number of his past associates on the campaign -- and some within his administration -- have pleaded guilty to lying to Mueller about the nature and breadth of their of their interactions with the Russians. His top three campaign advisers -- Paul Manafort, Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner -- met with Russians at Trump Tower in June 2016 under the promise that the Russians had dirt on Clinton. At a news conference following their summit in Helsinki, Trump sheltered Putin and Russia from blame in the election interference operations, insisting that the Russian president said he didn't do it and there was enough blame to go around on all sides.

    There's more, but you get the idea. In a vacuum, the President of the United States going above and beyond to shield his communications with the Russian president would be concerning. Given what we know about the Trump campaign and Russia, it's downright alarming.

    Now, back to my unanswered question: Why, if you are Trump, would you purposely shield your conversations with Putin even from your own aides? Why would you take notes from a translator at one encounter and urge that person not to reveal what transpired -- even to your senior aides? Why would you, as Miller notes in his story, ensure that "there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump's face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years.

    Add it up and you get this: If Trump really didn't do ANYTHING wrong in relation to Russia, the dumbest thing he could possibly do is what he did -- actively work to scotch the official record of any evidence of what he and Putin have talked about over the past two years. It's literally the most guilty looking thing he could do."

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/14/polit...ler/index.html
    It almost makes it look like these meetings are like a performance review with this boss, or something.

  14. #1664
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    On the same topic, here's an interesting opinion piece in USA Today by a professor at the Naval War College who concludes that Putin has very compromising information on Trump (more to do with the Russian mafia than with golden showers). And despite my GOP party affiliation, I strongly agree with his observation about Republican hypocrisy (and sure, hypocrisy is hardly unique to the Repubs):

    Finally, it is exhausting but nonetheless necessary to point out again the titanic hypocrisy of the Republican Party and of Trump’s apologists in the conservative media. If President Barack Obama had shredded his notes of a meeting with the Iranian president, or if Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager were sitting in jail for lying about meeting a Chinese business associate — and alleged intelligence officer — to share polling data, that alone would have been enough for the GOP to impeach everyone from the president to the White House chef.

  15. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    On the same topic, here's an interesting opinion piece in USA Today by a professor at the Naval War College who concludes that Putin has very compromising information on Trump (more to do with the Russian mafia than with golden showers). And despite my GOP party affiliation, I strongly agree with his observation about Republican hypocrisy (and sure, hypocrisy is hardly unique to the Repubs):
    Or if Hillary bit bleach 30,000+ emails... oh, wait.

    What could be more compromising about Drumpf than what has already been talked about him in the press and that we already know?


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  16. #1666

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Or if Hillary bit bleach 30,000+ emails... oh, wait.

    What could be more compromising about Drumpf than what has already been talked about him in the press and that we already know?
    Two excellent points! Hillary bleached her emails and tried to whitewash all of her crimes.

    There is nothing that could be more compromising about Drumpf than what has already been talked about him in the press and what we already know. Total fake news.

  17. #1667

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Or if Hillary bit bleach 30,000+ emails... oh, wait.

    What could be more compromising about Drumpf than what has already been talked about him in the press and that we already know?


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    It's time to retire Ted. Very low effort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    It's time to retire Ted. Very low effort.
    I think he's become pretty good at consistently defending the indefensible. Maybe he should set his sights a bit higher and start defending various genocides around the globe... maybe take the Guatemalan government's point of view in the civil war down there... "life expectancy among the indigenous population is so low anyway-- what's the big difference??"
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  19. #1669
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    The Mueller report!



    "There have been expectations that have been building, of course, for over a year But people who are closest to what Mueller has been doing, interacting with the special counsel, caution me that this report is almost certain to be anti-climactic."
    WTF? This has to be #Fakenews, right Frank?
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    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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  20. #1670
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    That's your post? A second hand report cautioning that the Mueller report is to be anti-climactic?


    Frank Uncle Burn-meister
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  21. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    That's your post? A second hand report cautioning that the Mueller report is to be anti-climactic?


    Frank Uncle Burn-meister
    The Mueller report will be exactly what everybody thinks it will be. Even if they can’t agree on what that is.
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  22. #1672
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    The Mueller report will be exactly what everybody thinks it will be. Even if they can’t agree on what that is.
    I've felt this will be the outcome for sometime. The right will say all that time and resources wasted for that? The left will say we got you, impeach that M'fer. And nothing will happen.
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  23. #1673

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfah View Post
    I've felt this will be the outcome for sometime. The right will say all that time and resources wasted for that? The left will say we got you, impeach that M'fer. And nothing will happen.
    What will happen for sure is the next elections.
    Last edited by BlueK; 01-15-2019 at 07:57 AM.

  24. #1674

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    What will happen for sure is the next elections.
    I'm a never-Trump guy, but assuming nothing drastic I think he wins re-election.

  25. #1675

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    I'm a never-Trump guy, but assuming nothing drastic I think he wins re-election.
    I’m not sure about that. It’s obviously contentious and close either way.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  26. #1676

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I’m not sure about that. It’s obviously contentious and close either way.
    Well it's early and Trump is vulnerable to a lot of things like a tanking economy, war, trade war, impeachment, Russia investigation, etc. But absent that, I think he has a really strong shot. He has an immovable base that will vote, a ton of money and strong campaign infrastructure across the country.

    Democrats will likely once again underestimate his appeal, nominate the wrong candidate, and use weapons against Trump to which he's already proven immune. I think Joe Biden is the only Democrat who can take Trump out. He can reach out to blue collar voters, attack Trump without going outside of his personality and appeal, and reboot the Obama campaign infrastructure. Remember how Biden kicked the crap out of Paul Ryan in the 2012 VP debates? He interrupted and mocked and made Ryan look weak. It was like a foreshadowing of Trump's strategy in 2016.

  27. #1677
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    Well it's early and Trump is vulnerable to a lot of things like a tanking economy, war, trade war, impeachment, Russia investigation, etc. But absent that, I think he has a really strong shot. He has an immovable base that will vote, a ton of money and strong campaign infrastructure across the country.

    Democrats will likely once again underestimate his appeal, nominate the wrong candidate, and use weapons against Trump to which he's already proven immune. I think Joe Biden is the only Democrat who can take Trump out. He can reach out to blue collar voters, attack Trump without going outside of his personality and appeal, and reboot the Obama campaign infrastructure. Remember how Biden kicked the crap out of Paul Ryan in the 2012 VP debates? He interrupted and mocked and made Ryan look weak. It was like a foreshadowing of Trump's strategy in 2016.
    I agree. I personally don't think Biden will make the best president, but if he were to simply be a pallet cleanser he will have done his job.

  28. #1678

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    Well it's early and Trump is vulnerable to a lot of things like a tanking economy, war, trade war, impeachment, Russia investigation, etc. But absent that, I think he has a really strong shot. He has an immovable base that will vote, a ton of money and strong campaign infrastructure across the country.

    Democrats will likely once again underestimate his appeal, nominate the wrong candidate, and use weapons against Trump to which he's already proven immune. I think Joe Biden is the only Democrat who can take Trump out. He can reach out to blue collar voters, attack Trump without going outside of his personality and appeal, and reboot the Obama campaign infrastructure. Remember how Biden kicked the crap out of Paul Ryan in the 2012 VP debates? He interrupted and mocked and made Ryan look weak. It was like a foreshadowing of Trump's strategy in 2016.
    They do need someone like Biden. They don’t need a liberal savior. Although I’d prefer that trans grocer who ran against Mike Lee to Trump simple because I don’t think she’d share secrets with Putin.

    Let’s keep in mind Trump has 2 years to do something crazy.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  29. #1679

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post

    Let’s keep in mind Trump has 2 years to do something crazy.
    Unless it ends up with him in jail, I don't think it matters. He's like a character in Mike Tyson's Punchout that isn't phased by an endless barrage of punches, but he's susceptible to a certain combo that Dems haven't been able to deliver.

    He's not going to win any new voters, but with his base he can win today. Trump's crazy was known before 2016 and there's almost nothing he could do that will change anyone's opinion of him. Dems need to offer a better version of Trump that can take his insults and attacks, strategically hit back, and take some of his voters.

  30. #1680

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    Well it's early and Trump is vulnerable to a lot of things like a tanking economy, war, trade war, impeachment, Russia investigation, etc. But absent that, I think he has a really strong shot. He has an immovable base that will vote, a ton of money and strong campaign infrastructure across the country.

    Democrats will likely once again underestimate his appeal, nominate the wrong candidate, and use weapons against Trump to which he's already proven immune. I think Joe Biden is the only Democrat who can take Trump out. He can reach out to blue collar voters, attack Trump without going outside of his personality and appeal, and reboot the Obama campaign infrastructure. Remember how Biden kicked the crap out of Paul Ryan in the 2012 VP debates? He interrupted and mocked and made Ryan look weak. It was like a foreshadowing of Trump's strategy in 2016.
    A lot can still happen, of course. The reason I would say he's vulnerable is that the key states for him last time were WI, MI and PA, which were razor thin wins for him, but which were all winners for the dems in the midterms. Trump needs to turn the tide back in those between now and then or he loses.

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