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  • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    There has been a lot of very negative commentary about Jared Kushner and Ivanka having major roles in the White House, citing their total lack of experience. With pretty much any other president in my memory, having such neophytes in top positions would certainly be cause for concern, perhaps bewilderment. And yet as a sign of my ultralow opinion of Trump, I think having the Kushners close to him is actually a good thing. Despite their inexperience, unlike Trump they appear well-educated, balanced, self-aware, etc., and Trump seems to listen to them. And Ivanka is playing the role of an activist First Lady. I'm confident/hopeful they can pull Trump away from at least some of the nutty stuff he's inclined to do. Is the presence of Javanka in the White House a bad thing?
    You're right I think. It's just too bad it ever had to get this ridiculous to where a president's best people to keep him from going completely off the crazy train are his daughter and son in law who are in their 30s. It never should have gotten to this point in the first place.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
      That's the first time I've heard the term 'Javanka'. Did you come up with that? If so, kudos. That's pretty good.
      Thanks, but no and honestly, I'm not sure I've ever come up with anything truly original.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
        Everyone has their sacred cows. It's obvious the U.S. cannot police the whole world, but it can and needs to assert influence where it has strategic interests. It's about time we pushed back on Iranian and Russian influence in the region. Assad is their man. That we have made it clear he must go is a very good development.
        I hate to say it, and I'm definitely not a pro-war, we should police the world type of guy. But I'm not so sure this chemical attack wasn't just a test by Putin to see what the US would do. And if we'd done nothing I wonder if we wouldn't suddenly be watching a Russian invasion of Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics by now or pretty soon. The fact is Putin thinks (and not without reason, IMO) that Trump is a stupid chump he could push around.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
          I hate to say it, and I'm definitely not a pro-war, we should police the world type of guy. But I'm not so sure this chemical attack wasn't just a test by Putin to see what the US would do. And if we'd done nothing I wonder if we wouldn't suddenly be watching a Russian invasion of Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics by now or pretty soon. The fact is Putin thinks (and not without reason, IMO) that Trump is a stupid chump he could push around.
          I wouldn't be surprised if you're right. Certainly the Russians (and pretty much every other world leader, I assume) are trying to size up Trump, and any new president's first major actions are scrutinized and viewed as an indicator of future behavior. I recall from a couple of years ago that records released from the politburo revealed that the Soviet's view of Reagan shifted dramatically after he fired all of the air controllers during the PATCO strike. They thought he was a lightweight bumbler, but they started respecting him considerably more after that. I'm hopeful last night's attack, despite the obvious perils, will have a similar effect.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
            Maybe it is the Russians (hackers) trying to drag the US into yet another costly war.
            My wife's mostly-kidding theory was that Trump & Putin secretly planned all of this, so that people would back off from the Trump-loves-Russia investigations.

            It's hard for me to criticize Trump for blowing up chemical-weapons-delivery materiel.
            "More crazy people to Provo go than to any other town in the state."
            -- Iron County Record. 23 August, 1912. (http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...23/ed-1/seq-4/)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Solon View Post
              My wife's mostly-kidding theory was that Trump & Putin secretly planned all of this, so that people would back off from the Trump-loves-Russia investigations.

              It's hard for me to criticize Trump for blowing up chemical-weapons-delivery materiel.
              Sure. What could possibly go wrong going after WMD in that region of the world?
              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
                Thanks, but no and honestly, I'm not sure I've ever come up with anything truly original.
                PAC that's not true! The grapevine tribute contest didn't come up with itself!

                Comment


                • President Trump: Making America Great Again...

                  Originally posted by Solon View Post
                  My wife's mostly-kidding theory was that Trump & Putin secretly planned all of this, so that people would back off from the Trump-loves-Russia investigations.

                  It's hard for me to criticize Trump for blowing up chemical-weapons-delivery materiel.
                  Mostly kidding? :foilhat:


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                  Comment


                  • Putting aside for a moment the question of why Assad would do such a thing as use chemical weapons (although I am not impressed with the conspiracy theories that abound becasue Assad has done this before), this situation was about perfect for Trump. He was presented with a violation of almost every international standard of conduct. Ever since WWI the world has drawn a bright line around chemical weapons. And, unlike Iraq, here Assad used them. The evidence was compelling and the images from the victims was sickening. Furthermore, the perpetrator was a Russian ally/puppet. So attacking him was not unlike attacking all those who claim Trump is in Russia's pocket. Moreover, the attack itself was carefully measured to respond in kind and measure to the chemical attack. Despite some of the more heated rhetoric, this attack was not about regime change or nation building, nor does it constitute a major escalation of our involvement in Syria nor does it constitute us policing the world. This attack was directed only against the instrumentalities of the chemical weapons attack. So Trump says you use these weapons (or "you cross a bright line") and that use will be punished. Trump was able to look firm, decisive, anti-Russian and not unduly aggressive all in one stroke. He was also able to please Erdogan and the Turks, as well as other anti-Assad forces, provide a counter balance to Putin's adventurism in the Middle East, satisfy the far right at home and give the left at home a hard act to criticize.

                    Plus, for a moment, lets consider the use of chemical weapons themselves: They are truly horrible and their use does deserve attack and censure. It is not a bad thing that people who might be inclined to use them will now think twice before doing so.

                    I also suspect this attack has been discussed very carefully in Pyongyang, where one can only hope that leadership realizes their only leverage comes from the threat of WMD use but once they use even one such weapon, it will be all over.

                    Bottom line for me is that I think this was a good move for Trump, even the right move. I am not confident he will have the ability to follow it up with the best possible diplomatic approaches, but hopefully Tillerson and Jared will help.

                    Here is the question I have: Did Syria know it was coming? We know the Russians were warned about the attack. Apparently they had no persons or equipment damaged in the attack even though they have military aircraft stationed at Hom airbase. SO if they were given enough time to get out of Dodge, does it seem likely they would not have warned the Syrians about the imminent onslaught?
                    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                    Comment


                    • Huge win for the alt-establishment (lol) in the last 24 hours. 4chan and Infowars types in FULL MELTDOWN. Sad!

                      Deep state FTW!

                      I'm bummed about not having a way to buy options on the use of the term "false flag."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 8BR View Post
                        Huge win for the alt-establishment (lol) in the last 24 hours. 4chan and Infowars types in FULL MELTDOWN. Sad!

                        Deep state FTW!

                        I'm bummed about not having a way to buy options on the use of the term "false flag."
                        alex jones irate!!!
                        Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                          There is a difference between the moral or even realpolitik justification to go after Assad and the fundamental reality as to whether or not the US, and by the US I mean the people, are committed enough to genuinely make a difference. That is a function of consensus and the degree of sacrifice we, as a unified people, are willing to endure in this foray. From where I sit our electorate doesn't understand why we are there, why what is happening is negatively impacting our world and how our actions will lead to a Syria where the negative things impacting our world will stop or if they can be stopped. The pure complexity of the issue seems to be an impediment to any consensus.

                          My opinion is they can be stopped but we are not committed enough to it. It seems that the best policy is to be involved enough to control the fallout to the best we can in our favor with our limited commitment.
                          Yes, I agree. We're not invading, and we shouldn't. This accomplishes a number of things: hits at Assad's air capability, shows Assad and the those like him that we actually will enforce red lines and will not tolerate use of WMD, shows our allies and friends in the region that we are back at their sides, and pushes back on Russian and Iranian dominance in Syria making then look weak.
                          Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                          For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                          Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by creekster View Post
                            Putting aside for a moment the question of why Assad would do such a thing as use chemical weapons (although I am not impressed with the conspiracy theories that abound becasue Assad has done this before), this situation was about perfect for Trump. He was presented with a violation of almost every international standard of conduct. Ever since WWI the world has drawn a bright line around chemical weapons. And, unlike Iraq, here Assad used them. The evidence was compelling and the images from the victims was sickening. Furthermore, the perpetrator was a Russian ally/puppet. So attacking him was not unlike attacking all those who claim Trump is in Russia's pocket. Moreover, the attack itself was carefully measured to respond in kind and measure to the chemical attack. Despite some of the more heated rhetoric, this attack was not about regime change or nation building, nor does it constitute a major escalation of our involvement in Syria nor does it constitute us policing the world. This attack was directed only against the instrumentalities of the chemical weapons attack. So Trump says you use these weapons (or "you cross a bright line") and that use will be punished. Trump was able to look firm, decisive, anti-Russian and not unduly aggressive all in one stroke. He was also able to please Erdogan and the Turks, as well as other anti-Assad forces, provide a counter balance to Putin's adventurism in the Middle East, satisfy the far right at home and give the left at home a hard act to criticize.

                            Plus, for a moment, lets consider the use of chemical weapons themselves: They are truly horrible and their use does deserve attack and censure. It is not a bad thing that people who might be inclined to use them will now think twice before doing so.

                            I also suspect this attack has been discussed very carefully in Pyongyang, where one can only hope that leadership realizes their only leverage comes from the threat of WMD use but once they use even one such weapon, it will be all over.

                            Bottom line for me is that I think this was a good move for Trump, even the right move. I am not confident he will have the ability to follow it up with the best possible diplomatic approaches, but hopefully Tillerson and Jared will help.

                            Here is the question I have: Did Syria know it was coming? We know the Russians were warned about the attack. Apparently they had no persons or equipment damaged in the attack even though they have military aircraft stationed at Hom airbase. SO if they were given enough time to get out of Dodge, does it seem likely they would not have warned the Syrians about the imminent onslaught?
                            One point: Saddam Hussein had a history of using chemical weapons on the Kurds, albeit several years before the second Iraq war. But granted, I think when they were talking about WMD's leading up to the war, most assumed that to mean nuclear weapons.

                            And not that it's overwhelmingly important, but in diplomatic circles and at the UN I think the US with its rhetoric has to shame all countries that have condemned our action and paint them as being supportive of ruthless dictators who would gas their own people. I think our true allies want to see a US that would stand against something that immoral.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by creekster View Post
                              Here is the question I have: Did Syria know it was coming? We know the Russians were warned about the attack. Apparently they had no persons or equipment damaged in the attack even though they have military aircraft stationed at Hom airbase. SO if they were given enough time to get out of Dodge, does it seem likely they would not have warned the Syrians about the imminent onslaught?
                              I'm going to assume the Russians told them. But we only gave the Russians one hour notice.
                              Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                              For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                              Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                                Sure. What could possibly go wrong going after WMD in that region of the world?
                                We purposefully avoided the WMD. And weren't the Russians supposed to have ensured that the Syrians got rid of it all? Kerry was such a dope.
                                Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                                For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                                Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                                Comment

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