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Thread: President Trump: Making America Great Again...

  1. #6121
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  2. #6122
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    Anything written by this guy has to be credible:

    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  3. #6123
    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    God help us survive a trump presidency.
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  4. #6124
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    God help us survive a trump presidency.
    Agreed. We can use all the divine help we can get. That said, I am not sure this is quite the calamity that this author suggests.

    First, it is not uncommon at all for national security teams to disagree internally over the best response to national security threats. In some ways, such a disagreement is a sign of a healthy dialog as opposed to group think, which might be one of the few positive signs we have seen coming out of the west wing. The primary difference here is that we learned about this internal dispute in real time instead of years or decades later, like when McNamara talked about the Cuban Missile Crisis. In fact, that we learned about this in such a high profile way (and this is not really news; they have been kicking around the "bloody nose attack" idea for months) makes it seem a little bit like there may be some other reason, which is point number two:

    Second, this is very likely a leak intended to be consumed by NK. There would be two purposes for this. One is that it might push/encourage NK to continue and expand the recently opened dialog with SK and hopefully pull them back from the brink. As we recognized with the Soviets in the cold war, talk talk is better than war war when nukes are involved. Since we cannot, currently, talk talk, it is a good idea to encourage NK and SK to talk talk even if we have to look like we are crazy. The second possible purpose is that IF we were to attack we want them to understand that we do NOT intend to begin an all-out war. Or, if we do have that intent, we want them to at least wonder if we mean it to be all out so that we gain even a brief and small tactical advantage. Either way, this sort of loose talk at this particular time smells a lot like possible disinformation to me.
    Last edited by creekster; 01-08-2018 at 11:04 PM.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  5. #6125

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    you’re right, this is another example of trump playing 4d chess and engaging in the reasoned give and take he has a history of displaying in public and private
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  6. #6126
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    you’re right, this is another example of trump playing 4d chess and engaging in the reasoned give and take he has a history of displaying in public and private
    4d chess? Hardly. But I don't think this a breathless, stop-the-presses revelation showing that the fate of humanity could unravel in the next few minutes, either. The bloody nose attack has been discussed for months. The timing of this latest description., coming right after NK and SK start talks, seems unlikely to be purely coincidental to me. Unlike Trump, McMasters and Mattis and Tillerson are not idiots.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  7. #6127

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    4d chess? Hardly. But I don't think this a breathless, stop-the-presses revelation showing that the fate of humanity could unravel in the next few minutes, either. The bloody nose attack has been discussed for months. The timing of this latest description., coming right after NK and SK start talks, seems unlikely to be purely coincidental to me. Unlike Trump, McMasters and Mattis and Tillerson are not idiots.
    you keep saying “bloody nose attack” as if there’s a considered reason to attack an aggressive and maniac-led foreign power who can level the capital of a key ally where tens of thousands of u.s. troops are stationed before even breaking into their newly acquired stash of nuclear weapons (which by many accounts can reach the eastern seaboard)
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  8. #6128
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    you keep saying “bloody nose attack” as if there’s a considered reason to attack an aggressive and maniac-led foreign power who can level the capital of a key ally where tens of thousands of u.s. troops are stationed before even breaking into their newly acquired stash of nuclear weapons (which by many accounts can reach the eastern seaboard)
    Its a legitimate strategy to consider. In determining how to deal with NK it must be considered, even if I personally don't see it as a viable option. Whether I do or do not think it is the right choice, however, doesn't mean much. In fact, and to my point, I dont think it is necessarily true that the trump administration thinks it is a serious option right now. We are very likely past the point where this approach can work. Regardless, it likely still has value as a threat to influence NK behavior, including pushing it farther in negotiations. I think it is likely that is why we are seeing this story now.

    Or we could throw up our hands and hope NK treats us nicely.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  9. #6129

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Its a legitimate strategy to consider. In determining how to deal with NK it must be considered, even if I personally don't see it as a viable option. Whether I do or do not think it is the right choice, however, doesn't mean much. In fact, and to my point, I dont think it is necessarily true that the trump administration thinks it is a serious option right now. We are very likely past the point where this approach can work. Regardless, it likely still has value as a threat to influence NK behavior, including pushing it farther in negotiations. I think it is likely that is why we are seeing this story now.

    Or we could throw up our hands and hope NK treats us nicely.
    wait are you the “not a trump apologist” guy or not?
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    wait are you the “not a trump apologist” guy or not?
    Call me what you want. DO you have anything of substance to add?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  11. #6131

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Call me what you want. DO you have anything of substance to add?
    to be clear, your proposition here is that because it's a thing that could be done, even though it is clearly a very bad thing for all stakeholders (in the opinion of you and key cabinet personnel), it is not alarming that it is reportedly only not being done because of a couple of reasonable members of the cabinet? and djt, the extent of whose nk diplomacy to date has been lobbing insults at a volatile ruler sitting on a stash of nuclear weapons that could reach the eastern seaboard, composed while straining at whatever fast food toxic waste he shoved in his idiot face last, has some grand scheme by which he tricks kju that he's actually serious about moving all in with the lives of 10 million people to bring him to the table? the same djt whose negotiating strategy centers around the most absurd handshake of all time, and who pissed away any semblance of leverage and goodwill he had in legislating his mostly middle of the road agenda with a republican congress? yep, i'm sure he's got a handle on this one.
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  12. #6132
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    to be clear, your proposition here is that because it's a thing that could be done, even though it is clearly a very bad thing for all stakeholders (in the opinion of you and key cabinet personnel), it is not alarming that it is reportedly only not being done because of a couple of reasonable members of the cabinet? and djt, the extent of whose nk diplomacy to date has been lobbing insults at a volatile ruler sitting on a stash of nuclear weapons that could reach the eastern seaboard, composed while straining at whatever fast food toxic waste he shoved in his idiot face last, has some grand scheme by which he tricks kju that he's actually serious about moving all in with the lives of 10 million people to bring him to the table? the same djt whose negotiating strategy centers around the most absurd handshake of all time, and who pissed away any semblance of leverage and goodwill he had in legislating his mostly middle of the road agenda with a republican congress? yep, i'm sure he's got a handle on this one.

    That wasn't very clear and no, that is not my position at all (too ornery?). The question is whether this linked article offered anything new or alarming. It was not new, and it was not really alarming, and I am guessing it was sourced by peopel who wanted ot put it out there for NK's consumption. I have said this at least three times now. Grand scheme? no idea. It seems unlikley. But I think he has some smart people at the table. Perhaps he listens to them once in a while.

    As for me, I do not think an attack makes sense at all. I also said that before. I alos never said that I think Trump has it all in hand. You get pretty excited.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    Anything written by this guy has to be credible:

    Unnerving if that's his true appearance.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  14. #6134

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    Nice little dog and pony show at the WH today over immigration. Chances of any kind of bipartisan deal? Yeah, right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Nice little dog and pony show at the WH today over immigration. Chances of any kind of bipartisan deal? Yeah, right.
    Get rid of the stupid Stephen Miller dog whistles decrying "chain migration" and the visa lottery. Any attempt to shoehorn the moronic RAISE Act into a DACA deal should be summarily dismissed. Almost bears waiting until next year to pass comprehensive immigration with the DREAM Act included so that Republicans have no choice.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  16. #6136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Get rid of the stupid Stephen Miller dog whistles decrying "chain migration" and the visa lottery. Any attempt to shoehorn the moronic RAISE Act into a DACA deal should be summarily dismissed. Almost bears waiting until next year to pass comprehensive immigration with the DREAM Act included so that Republicans have no choice.
    SNL seriously needs to portray Stephen Miller wearing a WW2 German officer's uniform. It fits his politics, it looks like him and fits his communication style, except for the accent.

  17. #6137

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    This excerpt from Wolff's book mentioned in this article seems entirely plausible regarding what Trump and his team was expecting would come from the election and its aftermath. Of course Trump wants to win, but there was talk back then of Trump launching his own media outlet or something like that, and Trumpism would have a permanent voice with him losing. And his brand actually wins. But if his presdency goes down in flames, there is a better chance Trumpism (and maybe his business) goes down and is severely damaged with it (along with the influence GOP for many years, IMO)

    https://www.vox.com/explainers/2018/...ald-trump-book

    The beginning of Fire and Fury is about what Trump’s team, including the candidate, expected to do after he lost. Steve Bannon “would become the de facto head of the Tea Party movement,” Kellyanne Conway “would now be one of the leading conservative voices on cable news,” Reince Priebus and Katie Walsh “would get their Republican Party back,” Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump “would have transformed themselves from relatively obscure rich kids into international celebrities,” and Melania Trump “could return to inconspicuously lunching.”

    As for Donald Trump? His plans were, well, yuge. He “would be the most famous man in the world.” Alongside Roger Ailes, he was thinking of launching his own television network — Trump TV, a network by him, about him, and for the millions and millions of people he had proven he understood better than the Republican Party, Fox News, or Paul Ryan.

    “I don’t think about losing because it isn’t losing,” Trump reportedly told Ailes a week before the election, when he and everyone else thought he was going to lose. “We’ve totally won.”

  18. #6138
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    The timing is perfect! Let's do a little bloody nose attack right before the Olympics start, what, about 50 miles from the NK border?

  19. #6139

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    SNL seriously needs to portray Stephen Miller wearing a WW2 German officer's uniform. It fits his politics, it looks like him and fits his communication style, except for the accent.
    miller is a lisping low testosterone beta loser who’s had his ass kicked at every turn. now that he’s got an audience in his fellow emasculated, balding 30 year old white brethren, he thinks he is somehow less of a failure as a thinker and leader. he’s not goebbels.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  20. #6140

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    LOL. More vintage Trump. After his immigration dog and pony show live on TV where he says he will accept whatever Congress can come up with, a group of senators comes up with a compromise plan and Trump immediately throws it out. What a moron. But not in the least bit surprising.

    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politi...use/index.html
    Last edited by BlueK; 01-11-2018 at 02:38 PM.

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    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    LOL. More vintage Trump. After his immigration dog and pony show live on TV where he says he will accept whatever Congress can come up with, a group of senators comes up with a compromise plan and Trump immediately throws it out. What a moron. But not in the least bit surprising.

    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politi...use/index.html
    From the article, one gains a greater appreciation of Trump's understanding of the immigration issue. "Why are we having all these people from shithole countries coming here?", he asks a group of senators. It's a question that answers itself and typifies Trump's ignorance and uncouthness.

  22. #6142

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    From the article, one gains a greater appreciation of Trump's understanding of the immigration issue. "Why are we having all these people from shithole countries coming here?", he asks a group of senators. It's a question that answers itself and typifies Trump's ignorance and uncouthness.
    I read that quote and thought, 'wow, PAC usually doesn't swear.' But no, Trump actually said shithole countries. LOL.

  23. #6143
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    From the article, one gains a greater appreciation of Trump's understanding of the immigration issue. "Why are we having all these people from shithole countries coming here?", he asks a group of senators. It's a question that answers itself and typifies Trump's ignorance and uncouthness.
    LOL... Maybe because the dems need the votes?

    I think Drumpf's approval rating just got a bump in redneck voting class.

    To get an idea of what countries Mr. Drumpf was talking about I googled "shithole countries" and this was the first that came up...

    India Still World’s Greatest Shithole

    http://www.searchindia.com/2014/05/0...test-shithole/

    What does Drumpf have against Indians? A few of those guys are good engineers.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  24. #6144

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    LOL... Maybe because the dems need the votes?

    I think Drumpf's approval rating just got a bump in redneck voting class.

    To get an idea of what countries Mr. Drumpf was talking about I googled "shithole countries" and this was the first that came up...


    http://www.searchindia.com/2014/05/0...test-shithole/

    What does Drumpf have against Indians? A few of those guys are good engineers.
    Not funny. What trump said was vile and disgusting.

  25. #6145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Not funny. What trump said was vile and disgusting.
    Yeah, no kidding... Doesn't Wolf know that kids watch CNN?!?

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  26. #6146
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah, no kidding... Doesn't Wolf know that kids watch CNN?!?

    That guy can now really say "My name is Mudd".
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  27. #6147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Yeah, no kidding... Doesn't Wolf know that kids watch CNN?!?

    So what Trump said was ok because this guy was mad and used bad words. Got it.

  28. #6148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    LOL... Maybe because the dems need the votes?

    I think Drumpf's approval rating just got a bump in redneck voting class.

    To get an idea of what countries Mr. Drumpf was talking about I googled "shithole countries" and this was the first that came up...


    http://www.searchindia.com/2014/05/0...test-shithole/

    What does Drumpf have against Indians? A few of those guys are good engineers.
    Ted stop running interference for the bigot man child in the white house.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  29. #6149

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    So what Trump said was ok because this guy was mad and used bad words. Got it.
    I watched that clip, it's not offensive unless you have no concept of context.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  30. #6150
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    So what Trump said was ok because this guy was mad and used bad words. Got it.
    IDK... Was Drumpf mad when he said the bad word(s) like this dude on CNN?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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