President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Uncle Ted]

I have some Constitutionally-based ideas why I think the president should not be rewarded for wanting to shut down the government over a budget appropriations issue. The Constitution gives that responsibility to the Congress. The President just signs the bill or vetoes it. If he vetoes, the Congress can go back and override, or they can negotiate with him to come up with a compromise. I actually blame McConnell much more for this than Trump. Maybe I shouldn't, because it's just capitulating to the thought that we just don't expect this President to have any respect for Constitutional processes or norms, and it's ok because that's just who he is. But I won't address that here.

Where McConnell is really to blame here is that he is willfully abdicating the Senate's Constitutional responsibilities to the President, thereby essentially handing over powers the Constitution doesn't. By refusing to even allow the Senate to even debate or vote on anything that isn't exactly what the screaming toddler in the White House says he wants, no matter if it would pass or not, is a shameful dereliction of duty for a leader who has sworn an oath to the Constitution.

It's sad we've gotten to where so much of the public, but now even our Congressional leaders are creating essentially a de-facto dictatorship because they are too afraid to carry out their Constitutionally-mandated responsibilities

What is this word 'negotiate'?

Democrats Are Exposed. They Have No Desire To Negotiate, Schlapp Says

Democrats Refuse To Negotiate Border Security As 800K Federal Employees Miss Paychecks

[BlueK]

What is this word 'negotiate'?

Democrats Are Exposed. They Have No Desire To Negotiate, Schlapp Says

Democrats Refuse To Negotiate Border Security As 800K Federal Employees Miss Paychecks

Has Trump offered anything to negotiate on? All we hear publicly is a version of my way or the government stays closed. Do you have a citation that says something else?

Beside the point though. McConnell should allow votes on the proposals that are already out there. Then when the President sees the bill on his desk is when negotiation with him is supposed to happen. Not his job to legislate from the White House.

[YOhio]

What is this word 'negotiate'?

Democrats Are Exposed. They Have No Desire To Negotiate, Schlapp Says

Democrats Refuse To Negotiate Border Security As 800K Federal Employees Miss Paychecks

The Devilcrats have NO idea who they're up against! Hint - the guy who wrote the Art of the Deal.

Embedded Tweet

Trump has them exactly where he wants them and anyways we hate government so nbd.

[BlueK]

The Devilcrats have NO idea who they're up against! Hint - the guy who wrote the Art of the Deal.

Embedded Tweet

Trump has them exactly where he wants them and anyways we hate government so nbd.

those crazy evangelicals. I'm sure he makes a rock solid case for how spiritual Trump in his book.

From wikipedia:

David Brody is an American journalist, and Chief Political Analyst for the Christian Broadcasting Network.

Brody was born in New Jersey on February 13, 1965, and grew up in New York City.He was raised Reform Jewish, but notes neither of his parents were very religious.He converted to Evangelical Christianity in his 20s.

Brody graduated from Ithaca College (Ithaca, NY) in 1988 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Communications. He was News Director at ABC affiliate KRDO-TV, Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he won an Emmy Award in 1989.

In addition to being a frequent panelist on CNN and on NBC's television program Meet The Press, his political blog, The Brody File, is featured on the Christian Broadcasting Network website.

Brody wrote the 2012 book The Teavangelicals: The Inside Story of How the Evangelicals and the Tea Party are Taking Back America.His book The Faith of Donald J. Trump: A Spiritual Biography, co-authored with Scott Lamb of the Washington Times, was published in early 2018.


The guy who wrote the Art of the Deal is Tony Schwartz. And he hasn't exactly been very complimentary of Trump in interviews I've seen:

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...rt-of-the-deal

[Eddie]

I have some Constitutionally-based ideas why I think the president should not be rewarded for wanting to shut down the government over a budget appropriations issue. The Constitution gives that responsibility to the Congress. The President just signs the bill or vetoes it. If he vetoes, the Congress can go back and override, or they can negotiate with him to come up with a compromise. I actually blame McConnell much more for this than Trump. Maybe I shouldn't, because it's just capitulating to the thought that we just don't expect this President to have any respect for Constitutional processes or norms, and it's ok because that's just who he is. But I won't address that here.

Where McConnell is really to blame here is that he is willfully abdicating the Senate's Constitutional responsibilities to the President, thereby essentially handing over powers the Constitution doesn't. By refusing to even allow the Senate to even debate or vote on anything that isn't exactly what the screaming toddler in the White House says he wants, no matter if it would pass or not, is a shameful dereliction of duty for a leader who has sworn an oath to the Constitution.

It's sad we've gotten to where so much of the public, but now even our Congressional leaders are creating essentially a de-facto dictatorship because they are too afraid to carry out their Constitutionally-mandated responsibilities.

If Trump gets what he wants he has the incentive to create one of these shutdowns every time he wants something he doesn't have the votes for. He had two freaking years to get the wall and even once turned down a lot more money that would have given it to him because -- GASP, it was a deal that also would have given protections to some people who were brought into the country as children who are now grown up and have not known any other country, only because of the wacko nutjobs on the fringes of his base are so offended and angry that such a person might have any rights. Disgusting.

I think I agree. McConnell saying that he won't vote on something that the president wouldn't sign in a cop out.

If he wants to take responsibility for it and say he won't bring it forward for a vote because he disagrees with it and wants the money for a border wall - then at least he's making his own decisions then and taking responsibility for it instead of pushing all of the blame/responsibility on Trump or the Democrats. If he wants a wall and isn't going to send anything to the floor for a vote that doesn't include it - then own it and tell people you want a wall!

I have to admit - when it comes to funding bills, I'm not quite sure how this works. I remember being taught at one time that the House is responsible for legislation that has to do with spending, but maybe that's wrong. If that's the case, I can see why McConnell is sitting - but he should own it. If that isn't the case and the Senate can propose spending bills - then he ought to come up with one he likes and send it to the senate floor. Pass it and put the pressure back on the House to take it or leave it.

But leaving all of that to Trump seems like he just wants to play politics and see the place burn while being able to point fingers at everyone else for starting the fire.

[Uncle Ted]

Has Trump offered anything to negotiate on? All we hear publicly is a version of my way or the government stays closed. Do you have a citation that says something else?

Beside the point though. McConnell should allow votes on the proposals that are already out there. Then when the President sees the bill on his desk is when negotiation with him is supposed to happen. Not his job to legislate from the White House.

Drumpf offered to push the wall out 30 days or so... Pelosi said she would only give one dollar for the wall. So there is that.

[Moliere]

Not to be overly pedantic, but it's more like this. Costco has a shoplifter who was using money from selling stolen Costco goods to shop at the Best Buy next door. So Costco installs a security camera to stop the theft and Best Buy paid for it because they no longer receive benefit from the shoplifter. It makes total sense and nobody is talking about it!

[Commando]

those crazy evangelicals. I'm sure he makes a rock solid case for how spiritual Trump in his book.

From wikipedia:

David Brody is an American journalist, and Chief Political Analyst for the Christian Broadcasting Network.

Brody was born in New Jersey on February 13, 1965, and grew up in New York City.He was raised Reform Jewish, but notes neither of his parents were very religious.He converted to Evangelical Christianity in his 20s.

Brody graduated from Ithaca College (Ithaca, NY) in 1988 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Communications. He was News Director at ABC affiliate KRDO-TV, Colorado Springs, Colorado, where he won an Emmy Award in 1989.

In addition to being a frequent panelist on CNN and on NBC's television program Meet The Press, his political blog, The Brody File, is featured on the Christian Broadcasting Network website.

Brody wrote the 2012 book The Teavangelicals: The Inside Story of How the Evangelicals and the Tea Party are Taking Back America.His book The Faith of Donald J. Trump: A Spiritual Biography, co-authored with Scott Lamb of the Washington Times, was published in early 2018.


The guy who wrote the Art of the Deal is Tony Schwartz. And he hasn't exactly been very complimentary of Trump in interviews I've seen:

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...rt-of-the-deal

Y was referring to Trump. That Tweet from Brody was just punctuation.

[Commando]

That money likely goes back into counternarco efforts. Plus that money is coming from the U.S. anyway.

Sorry, that is not Mexico paying for the wall. When is the Dump going to get that check from Mexico? Has he bothered to call to remind them? If they would would just send the check, then we could open up the U.S. Government.

C'mon Dump, keep your promises!!!

Not only WILL they [write the check], but THE WALL JUST GOT TEN FEET HIGHER!!!*










*Actual quote from Trump.

[Sullyute]

The Dems are going to lose on this stalemate. Just give him the $5b and get some other concessions where they can. Standing on principle when dealing with a stubborn child just doesn’t work.

[Commando]

Defunding FEMA to pay for a concrete monument. There is no humanitarian crisis at the border other than the one that's a direct result of Trump's discretionary policies- certainly not one a wall would be relevant to-, yet he pounds that message every day on Twitter. Remember Puerto Rico's ACTUAL humanitarian crisis that he couldn't give two shits about b/c they are brown? Or California's humanitarian crisis as a result of the fires that Trump couldn't give two shits about b/c they didn't vote for him? Fuck Trump and his campaign promises- he's not getting jack shit.

[BlueK]

I think I agree. McConnell saying that he won't vote on something that the president wouldn't sign in a cop out.

If he wants to take responsibility for it and say he won't bring it forward for a vote because he disagrees with it and wants the money for a border wall - then at least he's making his own decisions then and taking responsibility for it instead of pushing all of the blame/responsibility on Trump or the Democrats. If he wants a wall and isn't going to send anything to the floor for a vote that doesn't include it - then own it and tell people you want a wall!

I have to admit - when it comes to funding bills, I'm not quite sure how this works. I remember being taught at one time that the House is responsible for legislation that has to do with spending, but maybe that's wrong. If that's the case, I can see why McConnell is sitting - but he should own it. If that isn't the case and the Senate can propose spending bills - then he ought to come up with one he likes and send it to the senate floor. Pass it and put the pressure back on the House to take it or leave it.

But leaving all of that to Trump seems like he just wants to play politics and see the place burn while being able to point fingers at everyone else for starting the fire.

Per the Constitution, anything that has to do with money has to start in the House. Once the House passes it then the Senate gets it to vote on. Or at that point they can also submit their own bills since the process already started in the House. Once bills pass in both they have a committee with members from each work to get a version that is the same, and both houses have to pass the combined version if there are differences from the originals.

In this specific case the House has passed several bills, including some which were already approved by the Republicans in the last session, and sent them to the Senate where McConnell has not allowed the Senate to do anything with them. They should do their Constitutionally mandated work and agree to something which they can then send to Trump. He wants the shutdown, so let him actually veto the bills and take responsibility for it. Right now McConnell is refusing to let the process work because he doesn't want Trump to have to take the heat for it. With a government shutdown dragging on, how popular would it be if the Congress passed something and Trump vetoed? Not very, even with a lot of Republicans. As you said, McConnell isn't even a big wall supporter anyway. The only reasoning that makes sense for why he's doing this is he's deathly afraid of offending some Trump wacko in Kentucky who will decide to primary him for 2020. That's garbage.

[BlueK]

Y was referring to Trump. That Tweet from Brody was just punctuation.

Understood. Thanks!

[Bo Diddley]

Per the Constitution, anything that has to do with money has to start in the House. Once the House passes it then the Senate gets it to vote on. Or at that point they can also submit their own bills since the process already started in the House. Once bills pass in both they have a committee with members from each work to get a version that is the same, and both houses have to pass the combined version if there are differences from the originals.

In this specific case the House has passed several bills, including some which were already approved by the Republicans in the last session, and sent them to the Senate where McConnell has not allowed the Senate to do anything with them. They should do their Constitutionally mandated work and agree to something which they can then send to Trump. He wants the shutdown, so let him actually veto the bills and take responsibility for it. Right now McConnell is refusing to let the process work because he doesn't want Trump to have to take the heat for it. With a government shutdown dragging on, how popular would it be if the Congress passed something and Trump vetoed? Not very, even with a lot of Republicans. As you said, McConnell isn't even a big wall supporter anyway. The only reasoning that makes sense for why he's doing this is he's deathly afraid of offending some Trump wacko in Kentucky who will decide to primary him for 2020. That's garbage.

Which, if the wall is funded, it will. It all starts with a bill. Just because the President is flexing his powers doesn't mean it's outside of what the Constitution has established.

[BlueK]

Which, if the wall is funded, it will. It all starts with a bill. Just because the President is flexing his powers doesn't mean it's outside of what the Constitution has established.

That's not what I meant or said. Where I have a Constitutional problem with what is happening is McConnell acting like Trump is his boss by not allowing bills to even have a chance to get voted on because Trump doesn't want it. If both the House and Senate can pass something, Trump should have to use his veto. The system we have was set up to create co-equal branches of government. If the Senate wants to vote those bills down, then fine. But the boss surely knows at least one of them to reopen the government would probably pass the Senate and doesn't want to deal with taking responsibility for it. In his usual coward stance he wants McConnell to do that for him. What is happening is not technically illegal, but it flies in the face of what the Constitution intends.

And McConnell also knows very well that something that would reopen the government would pass the Senate or he'd have no problem letting it get voted down to help make Trump's point and score a point against the dems and the House. It's all about fear for those two. Trump is afraid of offending his 35% base, but especially those extreme right wing media nutjobs who presume to speak for his base. And McConnell is scared a Trump fan is going to force him to compete in a primary in the next election. The will of the majority in both houses of Congress and most of the country be damned. This is what our founders would have called "tyranny."