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  • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
    No. All Libertarians are free traders in theory. But some of the more extreme variety oppose free trade agreements because they usually involve some negotiations baked in that make them technically less than 100% restriction-free trade. The practical problem with that is that despite those concessions (hey, if you let us still have a 1% tariff on product x we'll drop all of our tariffs on everything else, etc.) is that the agreement is always going to be more free trade than what the countries or set of countries had before.

    A HUGE problem with what Trump is threatening to do now is trashing NAFTA as it currently exists and renegotiating something similar to what we already have with Mexico but cut Canada completely out of it. That's insane.
    This one made me laugh:
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...orth-the-price

    From what I think about Trump and his free trade antics is he is about as much for free trade as everyone else in practical reality. I don't know all the details of all his deals but I think he uses tariffs to force folks to renegotiate with him/the US. Likely, very little changes perhaps an industry Trump is favoring gets a slightly better deal. Then Trump declares victory.

    I don't think Trumps rhetoric reflects what he is doing and I don't think the rhetoric from his critics and detractors reflects what is actually happening.

    I also think he is posturing with NAFTA to put the real pressure on China. It will be interesting how that goes down because Chinese culture cannot allow for losing face and neither can Trump's personality. However, Trump and the US have far greater leverage and I think the Chinese realize this.

    Then again we do have to deal with upset spouses. LOL! After all the rhetoric of impending trade wars and the return of Smoot-Hawley and depression hysterics we are left with: this is kinda like upsetting your spouse- which is a way bad thing!
    Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
    -General George S. Patton

    I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
    -DOCTOR Wuap

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
      This one made me laugh:
      https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...orth-the-price

      From what I think about Trump and his free trade antics is he is about as much for free trade as everyone else in practical reality. I don't know all the details of all his deals but I think he uses tariffs to force folks to renegotiate with him/the US. Likely, very little changes perhaps an industry Trump is favoring gets a slightly better deal. Then Trump declares victory.

      I don't think Trumps rhetoric reflects what he is doing and I don't think the rhetoric from his critics and detractors reflects what is actually happening.

      I also think he is posturing with NAFTA to put the real pressure on China. It will be interesting how that goes down because Chinese culture cannot allow for losing face and neither can Trump's personality. However, Trump and the US have far greater leverage and I think the Chinese realize this.

      Then again we do have to deal with upset spouses. LOL! After all the rhetoric of impending trade wars and the return of Smoot-Hawley and depression hysterics we are left with: this is kinda like upsetting your spouse- which is a way bad thing!
      I think you make some good points, but I think ultimately it comes down to Trump thinking he's some superhuman who is smarter than anyone else who has ever existed, and anything that is already in place can't possibly be as great as what he will come up with: ie., all the previous presidents failed miserably with North Korea. Now he meets with Kim Jung Un and the the problem is solved. Reality is he does nothing in the end to fix anything, and with these trade deals usually makes things worse. Tariffs in the meantime while he tries to renegotiate do more damage than his ultimate solution is ever going to fix, IMO.
      Last edited by BlueK; 08-29-2018, 10:17 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
        I think you make some good points, but I think ultimately it comes down to Trump thinking he's some superhuman who is smarter than anyone else who has ever existed, and anything that is already in place can't possibly be as great as what he will come up with: ie., all the previous presidents failed miserably with North Korea. Now he meets with Kim Jung Un and the the problem is solved. Reality is he does nothing in the end and with these trade deals usually makes things worse. Tariffs in the meantime while he tries to renegotiate do more damage than his ultimate solution is ever going to fix, IMO.
        I think the comment the former ambassador made was about right: Trump is a pyromaniac who likes to show up and be a fireman for his own fires. Sure, he puts them out, but there was still a damaging fire.
        PLesa excuse the tpyos.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by creekster View Post
          I think the comment the former ambassador made was about right: Trump is a pyromaniac who likes to show up and be a fireman for his own fires. Sure, he puts them out, but there was still a damaging fire.
          I hadn't seen that. This armchair psychologist says that is spot on.
          "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
          "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
          - SeattleUte

          Comment


          • Question to consider:

            After the 2018 election, under which of these scenarios does Trump become more crazy/irrational?

            If the GOP holds onto the Congress

            If the GOP loses the House

            Comment


            • How would you like to be a Hispanic person born in the US and find out the government has taken your passport and won't let you back into the country because they think your birth certificate might not be legit, and it's up to you to prove that it is? Geez, no chance for government to overreach there...

              Insanity.

              http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...hispanics.html

              It’s a bureaucratic nightmare with teeth, as evidenced by the case of a military veteran born in Texas who had been a Border Patrol agent and was simply applying for a routine passport renewal:

              [He] received a letter from the State Department telling him it wasn’t convinced that he was a U.S. citizen; it requested a range of obscure documents — evidence of his mother’s prenatal care, his baptismal certificate, rental agreements from when he was a baby.

              He managed to find some of those documents but weeks later received another denial. In a letter, the government said the information “did not establish your birth in the United States.”

              “I thought to myself, you know, I’m going to have to seek legal help,” said [the man], who earns $13 an hour as a prison guard and expects to pay several thousand dollars in legal fees.

              https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/30/polit...ens/index.html

              http://fortune.com/2018/08/30/trump-...s-immigration/

              What is the real point of this other than just harassing Hispanic people?
              Last edited by BlueK; 08-31-2018, 07:29 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                How would you like to be a Hispanic person born in the US and find out the government has taken your passport and won't let you back into the country because they think your birth certificate might not be legit, and it's up to you to prove that it is? Geez, no chance for government to overreach there...

                Insanity.

                http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...hispanics.html

                It’s a bureaucratic nightmare with teeth, as evidenced by the case of a military veteran born in Texas who had been a Border Patrol agent and was simply applying for a routine passport renewal:

                [He] received a letter from the State Department telling him it wasn’t convinced that he was a U.S. citizen; it requested a range of obscure documents — evidence of his mother’s prenatal care, his baptismal certificate, rental agreements from when he was a baby.

                He managed to find some of those documents but weeks later received another denial. In a letter, the government said the information “did not establish your birth in the United States.”

                “I thought to myself, you know, I’m going to have to seek legal help,” said [the man], who earns $13 an hour as a prison guard and expects to pay several thousand dollars in legal fees.
                Three was an interesting thing on NPR about this yesterday. http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/...ericans-border

                Lawyer from the Texas Civil Rights Project, essentially said this has been happening for years. In his opinion, not much to see here.

                Comment


                • White nationalists working in the White House? Like this kind of thing is even surprising anymore. And working on immigration policy with Herr Miller. But we're not racist!

                  http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...cy-meetings-at
                  Last edited by BlueK; 08-31-2018, 06:05 PM.

                  Comment


                  • President Trump: Making America Great Again...

                    Originally posted by BigPiney View Post
                    Three was an interesting thing on NPR about this yesterday. http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/...ericans-border

                    Lawyer from the Texas Civil Rights Project, essentially said this has been happening for years. In his opinion, not much to see here.
                    Probably the best thing to happen since Trump got elected is that liberals are starting to care about civil rights violations again after an 8 year absence.
                    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BigPiney View Post
                      Three was an interesting thing on NPR about this yesterday. http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/...ericans-border

                      Lawyer from the Texas Civil Rights Project, essentially said this has been happening for years. In his opinion, not much to see here.
                      I heard that there was a specific person who was prosecuted during the Obama admin. And that fraudulent birth certificates have been an issue in the past. But this seems like more of a wide-scale suspicion of people in this area, rather than tied to a specific person. But I'm not sure on all the details.
                      "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                      "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                      - SeattleUte

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                        I heard that there was a specific person who was prosecuted during the Obama admin. And that fraudulent birth certificates have been an issue in the past. But this seems like more of a wide-scale suspicion of people in this area, rather than tied to a specific person. But I'm not sure on all the details.
                        That could be the case. I thought that this interview read interesting in that the civil rights lawyer was saying that this is par for the course. I am sure that these things have probably gotten more frequent, but maybe not alarming so like was indicated by the Washington Post.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                          Question to consider:

                          After the 2018 election, under which of these scenarios does Trump become more crazy/irrational?

                          If the GOP holds onto the Congress

                          If the GOP loses the House
                          Yes
                          Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                          For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                          Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BigPiney View Post
                            That could be the case. I thought that this interview read interesting in that the civil rights lawyer was saying that this is par for the course. I am sure that these things have probably gotten more frequent, but maybe not alarming so like was indicated by the Washington Post.
                            I think the difference is public perception in the border states. My family in Arizona used to be full-on supportive of open borders, but crime and other problems in the Phoenix area have turned them almost 180. They hate Trump and don't want a wall, but they've become jaded. I work with a lot of ranchers in New Mexico and Arizona, and they've transformed in the same way over the past decade.

                            I don't know what percentage is perception vs. reality, but it doesn't matter. The broader change in opinion I think gives Trump and others courage to say what some have been thinking for years. The racists and union protectionists have found new allies in the border people who fear crime, and that's been enough to tip the scales and embolden them to push for closing the southern border, civil rights abuses, etc. Just my take, but it's what I see anecdotally.
                            sigpic
                            "Outlined against a blue, gray
                            October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                            Grantland Rice, 1924

                            Comment


                            • Mr. Law And Order President.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SCcoug View Post
                                Mr. Law And Order President.

                                lol. Yeah... how could they not take into account the GOP midterms? Good job, Jeff...
                                "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

                                Comment

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