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Thread: President Trump: Making America Great Again...

  1. #8611

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    We need to return the Statue of Liberty back to France with the way people's attitudes have shifted. I don't mean the very real need for border control and protection, but the racist invective.

    Not to mention the retooling of immigration policy to try and render that phrase incorrect.
    Agreed.

  2. #8612
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    We need to return the Statue of Liberty back to France with the way people's attitudes have shifted. I don't mean the very real need for border control and protection, but the racist invective.

    Not to mention the retooling of immigration policy to try and render that phrase incorrect.
    I’m pretty sure France doesn’t deserve to have it back. Maybe give it to Canada?
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  3. #8613
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    We need to return the Statue of Liberty back to France with the way people's attitudes have shifted. I don't mean the very real need for border control and protection, but the racist invective.

    Not to mention the retooling of immigration policy to try and render that phrase/poetry inscripted on it incorrect.
    Dems definitely need to keep labelling voters that want to enforce borders as racist. It is a winning strategy.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

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  4. #8614

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Dems definitely need to keep labelling voters that want to enforce borders as racist. It is a winning strategy.
    I'm sure they'll stop as soon as a major component of the "Build the Wall" folks stop acting incredibly racist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVAllen View Post
    I'm sure they'll stop as soon as a major component of the "Build the Wall" folks stop acting incredibly racist.
    Let's get down to brass tacks and realize that 'building a wall' has FUCK ALL to do with border security. Securing the border can best be done- according to the best minds available and those dumbasses at MIT- with infrared and satellite technology wielded by trained agents- not a wall. That is a White Nationalist buzz idea that characterizes the sentiment that all immigrants are foreign invaders and the way to keep out invading forces is um... a WALL- that's it! So if you find yourself agreeing with people talking about the immigrant caravans as - ahem- foreign invaders, check yourself b/c that's that nazi bullshit coming back. If you can't distinguish that from the idea of 'border security' then you are a dullard.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  6. #8616
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Commando, you seem to be holding back. Tell us what you really think!
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  7. #8617
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Commando going straight for the Nazi ref. Another winner.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

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  8. #8618

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVAllen View Post
    I'm sure they'll stop as soon as a major component of the "Build the Wall" folks stop acting incredibly racist.
    I'm pretty sure they won't stop regardless of how MAGAers behave. Having said that, I would like MAGAers to stop acting racist and I would love to see our immigration policy make sense again. I would love to see the US find a way to allow as many people as possible of the caravans to gain legal status. I want dreamers to have permanent legal status. If you want to come and contribute to society and you aren't a criminal, welcome to the USA!
    Last edited by snowcat; 10-29-2018 at 11:57 AM.
    One of the grandest benefits of the enlightenment was the realization that our moral sense must be based on the welfare of living individuals, not on their immortal souls. Honest and passionate folks can strongly disagree regarding spiritual matters, so it's imperative that we not allow such considerations to infringe on the real happiness of real people.

    Woot

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  9. #8619
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
    I'm pretty sure they won't stop regardless of how MAGAers behave. Having said that, I would like MAGAers to stop acting racist and I would love to see our immigration policy make sense again. I would live to see the US find a way to allow as many people as possible of the caravans to gain legal status. I want dreamers to have permanent legal status. If you want to come and contribute to society and you aren't a criminal, welcome to the USA!
    Immigration is a pretty much a non-issue for the Dems in Texas... (Even the economy is more of an issue for the Dems.) They don't care about a sensible immigration policy.

    Just 9 percent of independent and Democratic likely voters called immigration the most important issue.
    https://www.chron.com/news/politics/...p-13336311.php

    It is no wonder they like Beto with his open borders and abolishing ICE talk. Sounds like sensible immigration policy to me!

    The Dems think health care is the most important issue...
    For Democrats, the No.1 issue was health care, with 26 percent calling it the top issue. Tied for second were morality and the economy, with 10 percent of respondents marking each as their top issue.
    But would the Dems share their precious health care with a flood of (both legal and illegal) immigrates (given open borders and the abolishment of ICE) onto the system? Of course, because someone else will pay for it! And there has to be a doctor or two in that group of people matching toward the border, right?
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  10. #8620

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
    I'm pretty sure they won't stop regardless of how MAGAers behave. Having said that, I would like MAGAers to stop acting racist and I would love to see our immigration policy make sense again. I would live to see the US find a way to allow as many people as possible of the caravans to gain legal status. I want dreamers to have permanent legal status. If you want to come and contribute to society and you aren't a criminal, welcome to the USA!
    I would like our President to not be racist.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  11. #8621
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I would like our President to not be racist.
    Yeah! Drumpf looked like he was having racist thoughts while talking to Kanye West.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  12. #8622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Commando going straight for the Nazi ref. Another winner.
    Yeah don't worry about White Nationalists, the crazy uptick in anti-Semitic violence over the past 2 years in America and people *checks notes* shooting up synagogues because they're mad at immigrants applying for asylum (gotta be the Jews' fault!). Sorry to interrupt your nap.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  13. #8623
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I would like our President to not be racist.
    Then you may not want to vote for Hillary in 2020...

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  14. #8624
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    Is Drumpf the chosen one?

    The chosen one? The new film that claims Trump's election was an act of God

    More than 1,000 US cinemas are screening The Trump Prophecy – which posits that God chose the philandering billionaire to restore America’s moral values

    It was, everyone agreed, a miracle. The unexpected election of Donald Trump in 2016 was an act of God, who chose the philandering billionaire and reality TV star to restore America’s moral values.

    This is the theme of The Trump Prophecy, a movie telling the story of Mark Taylor, a former fireman from Orlando forced to retire after suffering from PTSD, which premiered on Tuesday.

    Between graphic nightmares featuring demonic monsters and hellish flames, Taylor received a message from God in April 2011, while he was surfing television channels.

    As he clicked to an interview with Trump, Taylor heard God say: “You are hearing the voice of the next president.”

    And so it came to pass, although it took another five years and a national prayer campaign. Taylor duly wrote a book, The Trump Prophecies: The Astonishing True Story of the Man Who Saw Tomorrow … and What He Says Is Coming Next, on which the movie is based.

    The belief that Trump’s election was God’s divine will is shared by others. Franklin Graham, the prominent conservative evangelical, said last year that Trump’s victory was the result of divine intervention. “I could sense going across the country that God was going to do something this year. And I believe that at this election, God showed up,” he told the Washington Post.

    Taylor has made other claims, which he calls “prophetic words”, including that Trump will serve two terms, the landmark supreme court ruling on abortion in the Roe v Wade case will be overturned, and that next month’s midterm elections will result in a “red tsunami”, strengthening Republican control of both houses of Congress.
    [...]
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...on-mark-taylor

    Frank, just to be safe... you may want to start repenting.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  15. #8625

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Yeah don't worry about White Nationalists, the crazy uptick in anti-Semitic violence over the past 2 years in America and people *checks notes* shooting up synagogues because they're mad at immigrants applying for asylum (gotta be the Jews' fault!). Sorry to interrupt your nap.
    Kroger shooting in Kentucky is being investigated as a hate crime

    The fatal shooting of two black people in a Kroger grocery store in Kentucky is being investigated as a hate crime, Jeffersontown Mayor Bill Dieruf told CNN on Monday.

    Gregory A. Bush, a white 51-year-old, is accused of killing Maurice Stallard, 69, and Vickie Jones, 67, last Wednesday inside the Jeffersontown grocery store and in the parking lot, respectively.

    Prior to the shooting, Bush allegedly tried to enter a predominantly black church nearby but was unable to get inside, officials said. When that attempt failed, he went to Kroger instead and opened fire in the store.

    Dieruf also said investigators are looking into reports that Bush told a bystander before he was captured that "whites don't shoot whites."
    Given that, Dieruf said, the shooting "appears as if it is" a hate crime.

    "We have to get this all in line. The U.S. Attorney is reviewing the case, as are ATF and the FBI," the mayor said. "A crime against race is something that we will not accept. If it's a hate crime, it's unacceptable to us that a crime would be committed against a race -- certainly against any nationality or race is heinous."

    Heather Hogue, the spokeswoman for the Jeffersontown Police Department, confirmed that police Chief Sam Rogers believes the shooting "appears to be motivated by hate." She also said any charges related to hate crimes would be federal charges and separate from the state charges against Bush.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/29/us/kr...ime/index.html
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  16. #8626

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    Do honestly think that Trump has an ounce of respect for Kanye West? I'd love to hear the pet names Trump has for Kanye when there's no one in the room but Donald and Turd Jr.
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  17. #8627
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Pittsburgh synagogue shootings deepen divide in Jewish community over Trump

    I thought this was brilliantly obvious:

    Lieberman said that those who think Trump “can’t be anti-Semitic because he has a Jewish daughter don’t believe he can be sexist because he has a wife and can’t be anti-immigrant because his wife is an immigrant.”
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  18. #8628

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    Sounds like Trump is going to try and end birthright citizenships with an executive order. Should be fun.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  19. #8629

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Sounds like Trump is going to try and end birthright citizenships with an executive order. Should be fun.
    Amendment XIV
    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Any Republican who tries to back him on this needs to give back their "I love the Constitution" badge if they haven't already.

    I think Trump needs to get checked and balanced, but the flip side of that I think is if the dems do take some of Congress and start doing that, he'll try to get even crazier.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-30-2018 at 08:28 AM.

  20. #8630
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Amendment XIV
    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    You didn't highlight the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part... For illegal immigrates, given they are breaking the law, it is unclear if they are being "subject to the jurisdiction" but I am going to wait until commando has had a chance to weight in on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    I think Trump needs to get checked and balanced, but the flip side of that I think is if the dems do take some of Congress and start doing that, he'll try to get even crazier.
    Yeah, someone needs to light a fire under congress' collective butts to do something about immigration.
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  21. #8631

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You didn't highlight the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part... For illegal immigrates, given they are breaking the law, it is unclear if they are being "subject to the jurisdiction" but I am going to wait until commando has had a chance to weight in on this.
    Anyone inside our borders are under the jurisdiction of US law. They can't suddenly rob a store and claim it doesn't count because they aren't citizens. That's an absurd way to try to get around it. The Supreme Court has also already set the precedent on this more than once: people born in the US are citizens no matter how much the white nationalist movement might prefer it not to be true.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-30-2018 at 08:44 AM.

  22. #8632
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Anyone inside our borders are under the jurisdiction of US law. They can't suddenly rob a store and claim it doesn't count because they aren't citizens. Absurd. The Supreme Court has already set precendent on this. People born in the US are citizens no matter how much the white nationalist movement might prefer it not be true.
    So if someone that is not a citizen and here illegally robs a store are they really subject to full US law? In other words, they must serve time in an US prison and can never be deported back to the country they came from until their sentence is served? Are they really under the jurisdiction of the full US law? If a country requests they be deported doesn't that country still lay claim to them as a citizen. Do they not get to claim any of their babies (born in the US) as well? IDK... just asking. Where is commando when we need him?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  23. #8633

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    Anyone inside our borders are under the jurisdiction of US law. They can't suddenly rob a store and claim it doesn't count because they aren't citizens.
    This is the best I could find with a quick search that supports that view. Seems to uphold what you stated.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/national...ht-citizenship

    In the middle of the 19th Century, being “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States versus being “subject to a foreign power” had very specific national security consequences. Indeed, the language had nothing to do with immigration. As even critics of modern immigration policy admit, the 14th Amendment was passed at a time when there were basically no immigration laws. It was a time of open borders. Citizenship, to be sure, held significance in terms of political rights and duties. But, as a general rule, individuals could come and go at will. Being “subject” to the laws of a particular power was a question of “jurisdiction” in its oldest and most technical sense. To what government does one owe allegiance in exchange for legal protection? And as a matter of U.S. constitutional history, mere presence, regardless of citizenship, was sufficient. It did not matter that you might owe allegiance by virtue of your citizenship to a foreign country. While you were here, you enjoyed the full protection of American laws and owed your full allegiance in return, such that you could even be prosecuted as a traitor in times of war.

  24. #8634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    You didn't highlight the "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part... For illegal immigrates, given they are breaking the law, it is unclear if they are being "subject to the jurisdiction" but I am going to wait until commando has had a chance to weight in on this.



    Yeah, someone needs to light a fire under congress' collective butts to do something about immigration.

    Congress won’t be able to do a damn thing with Trump and his cronies on the far right in power. That’s pretty clear by now. You can weight for Commando but I think we can all guess how he is going to come down on this.

    Goddamn Ted, you really quit with the whole being a libertarian thing.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  25. #8635
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    This is the best I could find with a quick search that supports that view. Seems to uphold what you stated.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/national...ht-citizenship

    This seems a little more clear on what "subject to the [complete] jurisdiction thereof" means:

    Therefore, it is important to discover the operational meaning behind “subject to the jurisdiction” as employed under the Fourteenth Amendment rather than assuming its meaning from other usages of the word jurisdiction alone. Both Sen. Trumbull and Sen. Howard provide the answer, with Trumbull declaring:
    The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.
    In other words, it isn’t local jurisdiction the Fourteenth Amendment recognizes but only the lack of owing allegiance to some other nation because the United States only recognizes those who are ‘true and faithful’ alone to the nation. As will be explained shortly, only acts under the laws of naturalization can remove an alien’s allegiance to some other country under United States law.
    http://www.federalistblog.us/2007/09..._jurisdiction/

    If someone subject to another countries' allegiance, as with an illegal immigrate, then it seems the 14th amendment does not apply. When are the arm chair constitutional lawyers around here going to weight in?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  26. #8636
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    I was having a conversation with my wife this morning regarding immigration and the whole caravan thing.

    I guess I'm curious as to what people think the right answer is as far as making immigration easier and accepting folks like those in the caravan into the country.

    I think it's really easy to say that we don't want to bring in criminals. OK. And it's easy to say that anyone who wants to come here to escape violence and other bad things in their homeland and contribute to society here is welcome. OK.

    But what are the limits? Should there be any? What is the capacity of the US to absorb groups like this? Quite frankly, during my time as a missionary in Guatemala I knew of many people who wanted to move to the US. Some had applied and were on waiting lists. Others were saving up money for a coyote. And many others talked about it longingly, though they didn't have the money to apply and weren't willing to take the risks of hiring a coyote. And that was just in one country!

    Many people say we need to accept and process this caravan when they arrive. Who are we to not share what we have and to limit who else can have it based solely on winning the lottery of being born in the right country. And I agree - I really don't believe I deserve what I've got here any more than anyone else.

    But what is our capacity? And if this group is fully accepted in, does that bring other groups - perhaps larger groups? If I was living in Guatemala and learned that by making my way to the US I would be accepted at the border - I'd be packing my backpack for the trek.

    So - should there be limits? And what should those limits be? (I accept that they are likely much higher than the current acceptance rate) - and will the limits EVER be high enough to meet the demand? Or will it just allow more people in, without really reducing the number of people who aren't accepted and aren't going to wait and/or deal with a crazy bureaucracy?

  27. #8637

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Yeah don't worry about White Nationalists, the crazy uptick in anti-Semitic violence over the past 2 years in America and people *checks notes* shooting up synagogues because they're mad at immigrants applying for asylum (gotta be the Jews' fault!). Sorry to interrupt your nap.
    Violence is actually down: 56 incidents in 2015, 38 in 2016, and 19 in 2017. Total "incidents" is the number that is up substantially. Harassment and vandalism have doubled since 2015. Also, the shooter was not a Trump lover; he was quoted as saying Trump was a globalist and controlled by Jews. Trump is responsible for a lot of stupid stuff, but pinning anti-semitism on him is a stretch.

    Alternatively, an executive order overturning the constitution as interpreted by the SCOTUS is all him. This action probably ranks at the top of the stupidity list, which is quite an accomplishment.

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  28. #8638

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    This seems a little more clear on what "subject to the [complete] jurisdiction thereof" means:


    http://www.federalistblog.us/2007/09..._jurisdiction/

    If someone subject to another countries' allegiance, as with an illegal immigrate, then it seems the 14th amendment does not apply. When are the arm chair constitutional lawyers around here going to weight in?
    I'm pretty sure that the job of Senators is not to interpret the constitution, last I checked that was specifically excluded from their responsibilities. The courts (who have specifically been granted this right) have ruled on this as cited in the article I posted. The interpretation is based on English Common law which is cited.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...R_0169_0649_ZO

    The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance, also called "ligealty," "obedience," "faith," or "power" of the King. The principle embraced all persons born within the King's allegiance and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual -- as expressed in the maxim protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem -- and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance, but were predicable of aliens in amity so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the King's dominions, were not natural-born subjects because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the King.

  29. #8639
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the job of Senators is not to interpret the constitution, last I checked that was specifically excluded from their responsibilities. The courts (who have specifically been granted this right) have ruled on this as cited in the article I posted. The interpretation is based on English Common law which is cited.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...R_0169_0649_ZO
    Those senators help created the 13th and 14th amendments, as I understand it, so they were asked to give what they meant.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  30. #8640
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    Here is Drumpf on birthright citizenship...



    Oh wait... NVM. That is just some dumbass.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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