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Thread: President Trump: Making America Great Again...

  1. #10921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This seems like a productive way to change hearts and minds.

    I love that video.
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  2. #10922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This seems like a productive way to change hearts and minds.

    Nope. Not old yet.
    τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

  3. #10923
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I love that video.
    It's a classic. I love it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    It's a classic. I love it.
    Agreed

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    600+ minors died of the flu last year in US hospitals with state of the art medical treatment.
    400+ teens die each year of accidental drowning.
    Over 11,000 teens die each year in motor vehicle accidents.
    Another 400+ die of heart disease. 1,700+ die of suicide. Over 2,000 are murdered every year.

    Are you equally upset at each and every one of those unfortunate deaths? None of those deaths push your particular set of social/political/moral buttons, do they?

    So which of the following is actually most likely a piece of shit:

    A. The person that is not upset at one particular death that pushes a particular set of social/political/moral buttons?
    B. The person that claims chances are Person A is a piece of shit?

    You want to know the difference between being mad at an accidental drowning and the U.S. government negligently killing immigrant kids they've captured? I guess I should change 'piece of shit' to 'dumb piece of shit.'
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  6. #10926
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    You want to know the difference between being mad at an accidental drowning and the U.S. government negligently killing immigrant kids they've captured? I guess I should change 'piece of shit' to 'dumb piece of shit.'
    If you think the US negligently killed 3 kids in immigrant camps because they didn't let protestors administer flu shots, you are a dumb piece of shit.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    I asked if any groups have approached CBP through proper channels to offer free vaccinations, not whether CBP has said it will offer the vaccinations themselves. Your link doesn't address that question, but I suppose the lack of a response is a response of sort.

    Anyway, it is truly sad that any children have died of the flu while in CBP custody, but it doesn't seem like you are truly interested in discussing the real issues and instead are looking for a chance to get pissed off at any immigration related issues happening under the Trump regime. Since that has been your M.O. for a while now, I will bow out of this discussion.
    Ok so CBP/ICE/CoreCivic should wait until somebody else takes the initiative to offer free, lifesaving vaccinations "through the proper channels" rather than instruct their facility doctors on staff to administer them. I guess it's nobody's fault these kids are dying on the floor. Great take.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  8. #10928
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    If you think the US negligently killed 3 kids in immigrant camps because they didn't let protestors administer flu shots, you are a dumb piece of shit.
    No it's because they themselves didn't provide adequate care. The fact that protesters have to show up to offer the clear, simple solution is fucking pathetic.

    And here you are defending them to the hilt.
    Last edited by Commando; 12-13-2019 at 08:32 AM.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    If you think the US negligently killed 3 kids in immigrant camps because they didn't let protestors administer flu shots, you are a dumb piece of shit.


    I wished those protestors would stop by my house and give me a flu shot... I keep forgetting to go over to CVS. I am guessing by the time I make it over there the flu shot will be no good.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  10. #10930
    Corporate lackey for Jesus Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Good grief, guys. Knock it off.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  11. #10931
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post


    I wished those protestors would stop by my house and give me a flu shot... I keep forgetting to go over to CVS. I am guessing by the time I make it over there the flu shot will be no good.
    Isn't it nice that if you get the flu you can just grab a pillow and blanket and shoot a couple Advil and zone out to Netflix? Much better than collapsing on a cement floor near the toilet in a pool of your own vomit, amirite? Fuck those kids.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Isn't it nice that if you get the flu you can just grab a pillow and blanket and shoot a couple Advil and zone out to Netflix? Much better than collapsing on a cement floor near the toilet in a pool of your own vomit, amirite? Fuck those kids.
    Are you kidding me? My employer is a freak'n slave driver. That is part of the reason I haven't made it over to CVS yet.

    I thought those kids were living in the socialist's utopia back in Venezuela... Where Bernie said folks were more likely to live the "American dream".
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  13. #10933
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    No it's because they themselves didn't provide adequate care. The fact that protesters have to show up to offer the clear, simple solution is fucking pathetic.

    And here you are defending them to the hilt.
    Haha.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

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  14. #10934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Are you kidding me? My employer is a freak'n slave driver. That is part of the reason I haven't made it over to CVS yet.

    I thought those kids were living in the socialist's utopia back in Venezuela... Where Bernie said folks were more likely to live the "American dream".
    Venezuela?
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  15. #10935
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    Are you equally upset at each and every one of those unfortunate deaths? None of those deaths push your particular set of social/political/moral buttons, do they?
    Team TDS only cares about kids dying to the extent that the deaths can be leveraged as a cudgel against Trump.

    Like I said, not all dead brown kids are created equal.
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  16. #10936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Team TDS only cares about kids dying to the extent that the deaths can be leveraged as a cudgel against Trump.

    Like I said, not all dead brown kids are created equal.
    Waters right. He’s offensive, but right.
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  17. #10937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Team TDS only cares about kids dying to the extent that the deaths can be leveraged as a cudgel against Trump.

    Like I said, not all dead brown kids are created equal.

    Uh huh. Whereas you don't care about kids dying at all where Trump and his policies are responsible. Especially if they're brown. No need to clarify where you stand- we get it.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  18. #10938

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Uh huh. Whereas you don't care about kids dying at all where Trump and his policies are responsible. Especially if they're brown. No need to clarify where you stand- we get it.
    I'm sure you've never done any pro-bono work or stuff of the sort to help immigrant children, whereas Walter has dedicated his life to helping Pakistani kids.

    Walter is the one with Trump Derangement Syndrome, challenging all criticism of the man, only arguing with his critics on this board.
    Last edited by frank ryan; 12-14-2019 at 07:21 AM.

  19. #10939

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    Maybe United American Patriots can talk Trump into pardoning one more war criminal. He would never do that, would he?

    While celebrating recent pardons of military service members either convicted of or charged with war crimes, the nonprofit military justice advocacy group United American Patriots announced that the next individual they’ll support – Army Staff Sgt. Robert Bales.

    Bales is currently serving a life sentence without parole in the military prison at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas after he pleaded guilty to killing 16 Afghans, while on deployment in the Panjwai district, Kandahar province, Afghanistan on March 11, 2012. The act has been called one of the worst atrocities of the war.

  20. #10940

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    Disgusting

  21. #10941
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    Never having been in combat - so having no understanding of the stress involved and the high emotions of life and death and watching your buddies go down - I tend to take a pretty forgiving approach to decisions that soldiers (and police, really) are making in a split second that may result in the wrong people being harmed and killed. Not that it's OK - but I understand that the work they do is messy and sometimes tragic mistakes are made.

    All that aside - there are also situations where known atrocities are committed by people who are clearly bad actors. What would be the motivation of this group of veterans to defend someone who is clearly doing something bad? In my profession - we want those kinds of people stomped out to keep the rest of us from getting a bad reputation. Do military personnel see it differently?

  22. #10942
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Never having been in combat - so having no understanding of the stress involved and the high emotions of life and death and watching your buddies go down - I tend to take a pretty forgiving approach to decisions that soldiers (and police, really) are making in a split second that may result in the wrong people being harmed and killed. Not that it's OK - but I understand that the work they do is messy and sometimes tragic mistakes are made.

    All that aside - there are also situations where known atrocities are committed by people who are clearly bad actors. What would be the motivation of this group of veterans to defend someone who is clearly doing something bad? In my profession - we want those kinds of people stomped out to keep the rest of us from getting a bad reputation. Do military personnel see it differently?
    I think it is becoming a tribal oneupmanship. The Democrat President pardons or commutes the sentence of a preferred member of one of their tribe's beloved identities. So now the Republican is throwing red meat to one of their identities. I don't think there is a great deal of analysis that includes rule of law, but a lot of analysis of who this might please and whose head this might make explode.

    These types of calls are best made by the military judicial system and it already spoke. Those decision makers have the experience to fight through the fog of combat to fairly adjudicate the laws that govern men and women in uniform.
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  23. #10943

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I think it is becoming a tribal oneupmanship. The Democrat President pardons or commutes the sentence of a preferred member of one of their tribe's beloved identities. So now the Republican is throwing red meat to one of their identities. I don't think there is a great deal of analysis that includes rule of law, but a lot of analysis of who this might please and whose head this might make explode.

    These types of calls are best made by the military judicial system and it already spoke. Those decision makers have the experience to fight through the fog of combat to fairly adjudicate the laws that govern men and women in uniform.
    I think you're spot on here, both identifying the motivation for the pardons, and who should determine when a soldier crosses the line.

    I've seen firsthand the negative effects of soldier misconduct. Our engineer battalion spent a year in Baghdad working on various projects that built a rapport with the people there--rebuilding schools, repairing the 14th of July suspension bridge, repairing the city zoo, etc. This scandal hit just before we came back home, and our rapport with the people was gutted. It felt like all of the good work and good will that we worked so hard to do was undone.

    I have a lot of empathy and love for my brothers and sisters who put it all on the line, and experience the horrors of war. The military justice system is fair because a jury of your peers are the ones best qualified to pass judgement on your actions as a soldier. I'm sickened by what's going on right now to undercut the UCMJ.

    *This statement represents my own personal opinion, and is in no way endorsed by the Utah National Guard or the United States Army.

  24. #10944
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Thanks, Goat & Bo - what you're saying makes sense to me as well.

    If you don't mind me asking now that I've had a minute to read the article above - their argument is that this group doesn't think the men in question
    got a fair or constitutional trial? What is the biggest different between a civilian trial and a military one? I'm just trying to figure out why they would think a military trial somehow violates rights and isn't as fair as a civilian trial. Particularly since they seem to be arguing not that things were done in this particular case that could've made it unfair - but that military trials in general are unfair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Thanks, Goat & Bo - what you're saying makes sense to me as well.

    If you don't mind me asking now that I've had a minute to read the article above - their argument is that this group doesn't think the men in question
    got a fair or constitutional trial? What is the biggest different between a civilian trial and a military one? I'm just trying to figure out why they would think a military trial somehow violates rights and isn't as fair as a civilian trial. Particularly since they seem to be arguing not that things were done in this particular case that could've made it unfair - but that military trials in general are unfair.
    Are they complaining that the burden of proof is lower for the prosecution in a military trial? Could that be because the stakes are lower for soldiers that commit murder?
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  26. #10946

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Are they complaining that the burden of proof is lower for the prosecution in a military trial? Could that be because the stakes are lower for soldiers that commit murder?
    I'm not familiar with a lower burden of proof. Pretty sure it's still BRD. The complaints I've heard was that there was something akin to a witch hunt going on.

  27. #10947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    I'm not familiar with a lower burden of proof. Pretty sure it's still BRD. The complaints I've heard was that there was something akin to a witch hunt going on.
    Me neither- I'm just guessing, since that kind of charge in a civilian setting would carry a BRD burden, and maybe it's lower for the JAGs- no idea.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  28. #10948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    I'm not familiar with a lower burden of proof. Pretty sure it's still BRD. The complaints I've heard was that there was something akin to a witch hunt going on.
    Sounds legit. Gee, where have I heard that before?
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  29. #10949

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Thanks, Goat & Bo - what you're saying makes sense to me as well.

    If you don't mind me asking now that I've had a minute to read the article above - their argument is that this group doesn't think the men in question
    got a fair or constitutional trial? What is the biggest different between a civilian trial and a military one? I'm just trying to figure out why they would think a military trial somehow violates rights and isn't as fair as a civilian trial. Particularly since they seem to be arguing not that things were done in this particular case that could've made it unfair - but that military trials in general are unfair.
    JP could do a much better job in answering your questions, but I'll add my 2 cents. UCMJ serves to keep good order and discipline in the ranks. In some ways, it reminds me of administrative law. The military is the employer, and UCMJ serves as a deterrent to breaking the rules. In some ways, it serves to fill the void when crimes are committed in a combat zone. What are you going to do, turn the soldier over to the locals?

    I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court ruled that they have jurisdiction over UCMJ. I'm not sure what the basis is for calling UCMJ unconstitutional. If the SC is on board, I think it should be good 2 go.

  30. #10950

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
    I think it is becoming a tribal oneupmanship. The Democrat President pardons or commutes the sentence of a preferred member of one of their tribe's beloved identities. So now the Republican is throwing red meat to one of their identities. I don't think there is a great deal of analysis that includes rule of law, but a lot of analysis of who this might please and whose head this might make explode.

    These types of calls are best made by the military judicial system and it already spoke. Those decision makers have the experience to fight through the fog of combat to fairly adjudicate the laws that govern men and women in uniform.
    Pardoning war criminals is a newer development. Trump has been much willing to use the pardon for political reasons much more so than his recent predecessors from either party. Resist the urge to act like his behavior is typical or normal when it is not.

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