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Thread: President Trump: Making America Great Again...

  1. #9781

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Can you please quote exactly the definition I provided that you found unacceptable? I reject the first definition outright in case you were wondering. FR mentioned that "Irish is a culture, Danish is a culture, etc." Is it racist to advocate for the preservation of those cultures?

    If preservation relies on exlusion of others that's xenophobic and nativist. If you think "white culture" is under threat by brown people moving in and joining our society, you're racist. Those who view multiculturalism as a secret globalist and cultura marxist (ie Jewish) scheme for white genocide are kooks.
    Missourians thought Mormons were a threat to their culture and way of life.

    I appreciate your sincerity and willingness to engage in discourse. I'd challenge you to shift some of that nuance to situations when you talk broadly about activists and leftists.

  2. #9782
    Board eye candy beefytee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Ok. Here is a conversation between a black man and a Jewish man about the pros and cons of marrying-in. Is this a racist conversation? Are some of the ideas expressed racist?
    There are obviously different levels of racism and hate and the level of harm that they cause. The examples you provide are definitely racism even if they are very mild.

  3. #9783

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    If preservation relies on exlusion of others that's xenophobic and nativist. If you think "white culture" is under threat by brown people moving in and joining our society, you're racist. Those who view multiculturalism as a secret globalist and cultura marxist (ie Jewish) scheme for white genocide are kooks.
    Missourians thought Mormons were a threat to their culture and way of life.

    I appreciate your sincerity and willingness to engage in discourse. I'd challenge you to shift some of that nuance to situations when you talk broadly about activists and leftists.
    Accepted, I will try to be more precise. I return the challenge, try to use more nuance when talking about Trump supporters when you talk broadly about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by beefytee View Post
    There are obviously different levels of racism and hate and the level of harm that they cause. The examples you provide are definitely racism even if they are very mild.
    If "white" were substituted in any those quotes for "black" or "Jewish", would your description still be "they are very mild"? I wouldn't recommend getting online and accusing Ta-Nehisi Coates of racism. If you do for some reason decide to do just that, please link back here.

    --

    Much of my reason for engaging this topic is not in regards to my own thoughts and beliefs (which are in a constant state of adaptation--my engagement with this topic is actually very minimal here relative to the reading/listening online outside of this forum). I'm trying to learn and explore where these thoughts and ideas come from. Are racism and xenophobia learned traits? Are we born with some part of them?

    From what I've read, I believe the preservation of your tribe is a very, very deep psychological and physiological imperative. We have adapted to move between some tribes, but not all. The same language I used was repeated by Jewish people and brown people in the conversation I linked. It is not unique to white people. If you search the world over, you will find the same language and patterns of behavior. The outsider is distrusted almost automatically without thought or reservation. See Realistic Conflict Theory It was nice of fusnik to drop in here and prove the point. SF is saying unacceptable things, he's not of our tribe, why try to reason with him? Label the outsider as such and exclude him. (Did I misread this?)

    It's not just a racial problem, the same psychological subsystems are activated between fans of sports teams. Why do athletes engage in bench clearing brawls? Living peacefully with many tribes is not normal human behavior. Yet in the US, while not nearly perfect, we don't kill each other in genocidal tribal warfare. Why is that? And once it is identified how do we go about not losing it?

  4. #9784

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    The race issue in the US is complicated.

    Article in The Economist


    Some have used these data to assert that racists have been emboldened by Mr Trump’s victory and are perpetrating hate crimes against their neighbours at higher rates than before, a picture that seems to be confirmed by attacks on synagogues, or by marching white supremacists. This is misleading, however. Over the past ten years, racial biases have become less pronounced in America. It is possible that its citizens are more tolerant today than they have ever been before.
    Tessa Charlesworth and Mahzarin Banaji, psychologists at Harvard University, recently published an analysis of 4.4m results from an online test of Americans’ biases. The test, called an implicit-association test (iat), scores biases based on how quickly a person associates black and white faces with nouns like “good” and “bad” or “joyful” and “evil”. If someone is quicker to categorise one race positively or the other negatively, they are said to be biased. The authors found that implicit biases based on race have decreased by approximately 17% in a decade. They also found that explicit biases have declined by an even-larger 37%.
    Yet while all this progress has been going on, American politics has become more polarised on racial lines, rather than less.
    A good predictor of support for Donald Trump in 2016 was whether or not a voter agreed with whether it was extremely or very important “for whites to work together to change laws that are unfair to whites,” a sentiment shared by 33% of Trump voters, according to the ANES.

    This does not mean that support for the president is motivated by simple racism, as his opponents frequently imply. Those who say they identify more with whites do not always prefer white to black Americans. In her recent book, “White Identity Politics”, Ashley Jardina, a political scientist, finds that 9% of white Americans are unabashed racists. A much larger group of whites, 30-40% of the total, feel a strong attachment to their whiteness and yet do not express racial bias.

  5. #9785
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    The race issue in the US is complicated.

    Article in The Economist
    This does not mean that support for the president is motivated by simple racism, as his opponents frequently imply. Those who say they identify more with whites do not always prefer white to black Americans. In her recent book, “White Identity Politics”, Ashley Jardina, a political scientist, finds that 9% of white Americans are unabashed racists. A much larger group of whites, 30-40% of the total, feel a strong attachment to their whiteness and yet do not express racial bias.
    I think there is a very VERY fine line between recognizing those who have experienced marginalization in the past and attempting to give them the support to lift them up to a higher plane (speaking primarily of socioeconomic issues) versus shaming someone for being a part of the group who has not been marginalized - and the group which even played some role in that marginalization in the past.

    More and more research coming out suggests that resilience, happiness, and emotional health is tied to family narrative - who you are, where you come from, your family's story. And I fear not allowing someone to have a connection or some pride in their story - because they are white and are part of a privileged class - puts long-term mental health at risk. Now - to be sure, it's about more than just race or culture. It includes all of the elements of who a person and their family are. But being "white" is part of the story. And if kids begin to hear that they should be ashamed of being white due to the actions of their ancestors, we're putting them at risk.

    This article touches on what I'm talking about; I'm not sure how well I'm describing it, and this doesn't take it all in. But it gives you a sense.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/f...this-life.html

    FYI - I'm not in any way suggesting that white nationalism is OK. What I am suggesting is that it's OK for people to be OK with who they are and where they come from. And if we make it not OK for them to be who they are and where they come from, that is a bad thing.

  6. #9786
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Wrong! I oppose all walls. America does not stand for walls. Walls are un-American. Worse! Walls don’t work. They just don’t. America, tear down your walls! All walls must come down. Walls, a pillar of barbarism.
    We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

  7. #9787

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    I think there is a very VERY fine line between recognizing those who have experienced marginalization in the past and attempting to give them the support to lift them up to a higher plane (speaking primarily of socioeconomic issues) versus shaming someone for being a part of the group who has not been marginalized - and the group which even played some role in that marginalization in the past.

    More and more research coming out suggests that resilience, happiness, and emotional health is tied to family narrative - who you are, where you come from, your family's story. And I fear not allowing someone to have a connection or some pride in their story - because they are white and are part of a privileged class - puts long-term mental health at risk. Now - to be sure, it's about more than just race or culture. It includes all of the elements of who a person and their family are. But being "white" is part of the story. And if kids begin to hear that they should be ashamed of being white due to the actions of their ancestors, we're putting them at risk.

    This article touches on what I'm talking about; I'm not sure how well I'm describing it, and this doesn't take it all in. But it gives you a sense.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/f...this-life.html

    FYI - I'm not in any way suggesting that white nationalism is OK. What I am suggesting is that it's OK for people to be OK with who they are and where they come from. And if we make it not OK for them to be who they are and where they come from, that is a bad thing.
    Thanks for the article. It further extends my understanding of family, but also extending to community.

    Leaders in other fields have found similar results. Many groups use what sociologists call sense-making, the building of a narrative that explains what the group is about.

    Jim Collins, a management expert and author of “Good to Great,” told me that successful human enterprises of any kind, from companies to countries, go out of their way to capture their core identity. In Mr. Collins’s terms, they “preserve core, while stimulating progress.”
    The focus on capturing an identity and preserving the core. It reminds me of the first Cars movie as it takes a nostalgic look at pre-multilane highway life in America's small towns. Community and tradition are important to people, and they naturally fear losing it, lose connection to the past and losing the opportunity to propagate it to their children.

    Are there any references to why nostalgia may have developed in humans? I think I'll google to see what I can find, but if anyone knows of good source material on the evolutionary purpose of nostalgia that would be helpful.

  8. #9788

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    I think there is a very VERY fine line between recognizing those who have experienced marginalization in the past and attempting to give them the support to lift them up to a higher plane (speaking primarily of socioeconomic issues) versus shaming someone for being a part of the group who has not been marginalized - and the group which even played some role in that marginalization in the past.

    More and more research coming out suggests that resilience, happiness, and emotional health is tied to family narrative - who you are, where you come from, your family's story. And I fear not allowing someone to have a connection or some pride in their story - because they are white and are part of a privileged class - puts long-term mental health at risk. Now - to be sure, it's about more than just race or culture. It includes all of the elements of who a person and their family are. But being "white" is part of the story. And if kids begin to hear that they should be ashamed of being white due to the actions of their ancestors, we're putting them at risk.

    This article touches on what I'm talking about; I'm not sure how well I'm describing it, and this doesn't take it all in. But it gives you a sense.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/f...this-life.html

    FYI - I'm not in any way suggesting that white nationalism is OK. What I am suggesting is that it's OK for people to be OK with who they are and where they come from. And if we make it not OK for them to be who they are and where they come from, that is a bad thing.
    The importance ones family background and community background and story isn’t new to our field, but it has been validated.
    I agree with your last paragraph. I don’t think encouraging someone to be aware of their privilege is the same thing as making them ashamed of who they are. I can how it might feel that way for others, but’s it not.
    I’m proud of my Mormon heritage, even my Irish and Danish roots and most of the time I’m proud to be an American but I’ve never felt an attachment to a community based on race/
    Last edited by frank ryan; 05-13-2019 at 04:10 PM.

  9. #9789
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    The importance ones family background and community background and story isn’t new to our field, but it has been validated.
    I agree with your last article. I don’t think encouraging someone to be aware of their privilege is the same thing as making them ashamed of who they are. I can how it might feel that way for others, but’s it not.
    I’m proud of my Mormon heritage, even my Irish and Danish roots and most of the time I’m proud to be an American but I’ve never felt an attachment to a community based on race/
    Couple of comments.

    First - I agree that making someone aware of their privilege isn't always shaming. But there is a ton of nuance to it, and I'm not sure kids always get the nuance. And - I think that some take to that recognition more easily than others. And sometimes the efforts to get those who don't get it to get it result in overly hammering home the point to those who DO get it - which can lead to a degree of shaming, whether that is intended or not.

    Second - there are some who would say that being proud of your Irish and Danish roots and potentially celebrating that Irish and Danish heritage is also a celebration and an attachment to your white race. You can't always separate those things. Not a lot of people of color historically who were Irish or Danish.

  10. #9790

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    Couple of comments.

    First - I agree that making someone aware of their privilege isn't always shaming. But there is a ton of nuance to it, and I'm not sure kids always get the nuance. And - I think that some take to that recognition more easily than others. And sometimes the efforts to get those who don't get it to get it result in overly hammering home the point to those who DO get it - which can lead to a degree of shaming, whether that is intended or not.

    Second - there are some who would say that being proud of your Irish and Danish roots and potentially celebrating that Irish and Danish heritage is also a celebration and an attachment to your white race. You can't always separate those things. Not a lot of people of color historically who were Irish or Danish.
    Well, those people be misguided. There are folk songs celebrating whiteness. There aren’t oral stories about the importance of whiteness as part of the Irish tradition. In fact, I’d say if you went to Ireland and visited as Irish-Nationalist bar and inferred there pride was even in part based on their racial identity, you would get the shit kicked out of you. For Irish nationalist opposing colonialism is a part of their story and identify. The British used to design the Irish as a being a different race. The Irish nationalist partitions in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are very pro-immigrant.
    Also, there are black Irish individuals. An important and revered modern Irish culture figure, Phil Lynnott was black.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Lynott

    Almost all of the Mormon pioneers who white, a far greater majority than white Irish or Danish people. We know there were also some people of color, even a few slaves. Jane Manning and Elijah were pioneers. When Pioneer Day is celebrated there are no racial overtones.

    Sure you’ll find people who say race matters, but you’ll find people who say race matters when it comes to being an American. Those people are pricks. There really is no glory is xenophobia and nativism.
    Last edited by frank ryan; 05-13-2019 at 05:37 PM.

  11. #9791
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Well, those people be misguided. There are folk songs celebrating whiteness. There aren’t oral stories about the importance of whiteness as part of the Irish tradition. In fact, I’d say if you went to Ireland and visited as Irish-Nationalist bar and inferred there pride was even in part based on their racial identity, you would get the shit kicked out of you. For Irish nationalist opposing colonialism is a part of their story and identify. The British used to design the Irish as a being a different race. The Irish nationalist partitions in both the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland are very pro-immigrant.
    Also, there are black Irish individuals. An important and revered modern Irish culture figure, Phil Lynnott was black.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Lynott

    Almost all of the Mormon pioneers who white, a far greater majority than white Irish or Danish people. We know there were also some people of color, even a few slaves. Jane Manning and Elijah were pioneers. When Pioneer Day is celebrating there are no racial overtones.

    Sure you’ll find people who say race matters, but you’ll find people who say race matters when it comes to being an American. Those people are pricks. There really is no glory is xenophobia and nativism.
    Wait, so you're really saying that because the Irish are the "blacks of Europe" that they dont suffer from white privilege?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  12. #9792

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    Another article of a young man trying to make his way in his community. Trying to understand the morality and pressures of his community and figure out where the lines are and where they should be.

    The opening lines:

    O.K., let me just get to it. I think I broke up with my last girlfriend because she’s white. Actually, no, I definitely broke up with her because she’s white.
    And the sum-up:

    So here I stand, trying to be woke, and not dating white women, and feeling kind of bad about that. Because I’m definitely dating, and thinking that the decision to no longer date white women might not be my own, that any decision to choose a side doesn’t help the whole hashtag-woke thing because how do we solve anything if we just separate and isolate?...

    ...Anyway, this is me yearning, praying, journaling, writing, dialoguing, putting up a one-man show, wishing, trying to pick a side, wondering how to choose myself and trying to wrap my head around this, hoping that I’m doing woke right, because something just doesn’t feel right.

  13. #9793
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampfrog View Post
    Another article of a young man trying to make his way in his community. Trying to understand the morality and pressures of his community and figure out where the lines are and where they should be.

    The opening lines:



    And the sum-up:
    Here's another meaningless tweet for just Frank...

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  14. #9794
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Here's another meaningless tweet for just Frank...

    What was the tweet she was referencing? It has been removed.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  15. #9795

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    I'm going to make one more attempt at this. I've been reading a lot of perspectives from various sources over the last couple of days, and I think I previously used some trigger phrases and wording that undermined my attempted communication.

    There are some ideas that I think are sacrosanct to facilitating multiculturalism. These are encoded in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, constitutional amendments, the engraving at the Statue of Liberty, etc. I'm assuming this isn't controversial, but if it is, then please point me at a source of further education.

    It's these values that I referred to as Judeo-Christian values. I am not making a case that these ideas belong to or originated in Judeo-Christian cultures. Both Jewish and Christian cultures have adapted and incorporated many good ideas from other cultures over time (as well as some bad ones). Nor do I believe their maintenance requires that Christianity and Judaism survive for these ideas to survive. Many of these ideas have been implemented across races and ethnicities. They are echoed in texts and traditions across cultures. They are also found in secular humanism and many distinct religious traditions. Some of those ideas deal specifically with how one treats strangers and enemies. "I was a stranger and you welcomed me...", "love thy enemy", the good Samaritan, etc. I do believe however that these values and ideas do need some vehicle that facilitates their generational transmittal, which is often best accomplished via narrative. Somehow sacredness fits into the puzzle.

    The open question that I struggle with is what percentage of any given population must hold these principles to prevent their erosion, and with that erosion cause a society such as the US to collapse into tribalism and its accompanying conflict. Not all cultures, traditions, individuals, etc. "hold these truths to be self-evident". Those tempted to seek power (and we all do to some extent have a desire to increase our own status) will undermine them at the earliest opportunity.

    The Book of Mormon highlights a few of the methodologies by which "free" cultures can be destroyed. Again, these same ideas are in other texts. King Noah versus King Benjamin. The kingmen of Moroni's time. The Gadianton robbers. All highlighting the corruption that sometimes manifests from within. The various threats from Lamanites, especially when the Lamanites have allies within that use them as vehicle to power (Amalickiah). Are these threats real? Or just traditional indoctrination that I have been subjected to? What do I make of Moroni's title of liberty and the reasoning laid out there? I see that similar ideas are also present currently in social psychology, in evolutionary theory, in examination of the brain through neuroscience, etc. (See Haidt's, "The Righteous Mind"). Non-religious people from these varied disciplines are also raising a voice of warning.

    It is purely happenstance that the United States was founded by primarily "white" "Christian" people from Europe. It also happened at a time when Western European society had not fully adapted these ideas into their own culture. Most people still lived under difficult circumstances, appalling living conditions (by modern standards), and were confronting the tyrannical behaviors of the powerful within their cultures. Once the immediate oppression of absolute tyranny and relentless nature had been reduced, slowly the promise of these ideas have been extended to others (which still continues today--and for which there is still work to do).

    The Book of Mormon, The Bible (and other writings, including evolution theory) all warn of the dangers of following the tradition of your fathers. While also extolling the possible virtues of the tradition of your fathers. Tradition is a two-edged sword. I'm struggling to make sense of it. While I would be dishonest to say I'm not frustrated, the feedback has been useful for my ongoing effort to better understand myself and the many communities in which I participate.

    It may simply be that the nature of internet forums can't provide the necessary communication feedback mechanisms by which such things can be effectively explored. In order to explore them, I have to imperfectly express what I'm thinking which will at least be poorly articulated, and at other times simply misinformed. I'm well aware that I have biases, many of which are unknown to me. I'll probably leave this topic alone for now, it appears to complex for asynchronous communication.

  16. #9796

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    What was the tweet she was referencing? It has been removed.
    I don't remember the exact phrasing, but essentially "why do black people marry white people, what's wrong with them??!!!"

  17. #9797
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    What was the tweet she was referencing? It has been removed.
    The internet never forgets...

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  18. #9798
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    "And keep your damn spyware filled phones and equipment off our networks..."

    Exclusive: Trump expected to sign order paving way for U.S. telecoms ban on Huawei

    President Donald Trump is expected to sign an executive order this week barring U.S. companies from using telecommunications equipment made by firms posing a national security risk, paving the way for a ban on doing business with China’s Huawei, three U.S. officials familiar with the plan told Reuters.

    The order, which will not name specific countries or companies, has been under consideration for more than a year but has repeatedly been delayed, the sources said, asking not to be named because the preparations remain confidential. It could be delayed again, they said.


    The executive order would invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which gives the president the authority to regulate commerce in response to a national emergency that threatens the United States. The order will direct the Commerce Department, working with other government agencies, to draw up a plan for enforcement, the sources said.
    [...]
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1SK2P1
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  19. #9799

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    One last post, (not that anyone cares) just to provide at least one published resource that has the same arguments laid out for anyone interested in more in depth reading. Note the use of the word "institutions" instead of my previous use of "traditions". Also "The Righteous Mind" by Jonathan Haidt has many of the same arguments in a book length non-technical text.

    If our tribal social instincts hypothesis is correct, complex societies would have evolved under the constraints and possibilities offered by our evolved social psychology.The rapid social changes of the last few thousand years should throw our social instincts into high relief. Cultural evolution should have produced institutions that conspicuously work around the constraints imposed by a psychology adapted to relatively small scale egalitarian societies. Institutions should evolve to take advantage of the pro-group commitments the tribal instincts make possible and finesse the conflict between egalitarian impulses and the stratification and command and control ubiquitous in complex societies. One of the most striking features of complex societies, including modern societies, is the persistence of tribal scale social institutions and the elaboration of institutions such as nationalism that utilize mass media to simulate tribes on a larger scale. Business organizations, schools, religions, and government bureaucracies generally contain features that tap or respond to our propensity to commit to tribes or reasonable facsimiles. The persistence of ethnic sentiments in a large-scale modern world that would seem to make them obsolete is an example (Glazer and Moynihan 1975).
    In modern complex societies, specialized institutions engage in various parts of the innovation process. Universities and other research institutions create and test new ideas. Marketing systems spread the word. Governments pass laws to implement new ideas (or to forbid their use) based on some assessment of the needs of society as a whole. Think of the effort that the biomedical innovation system mounted to address the AIDS epidemic. Trust in these collective institutions is built via patriotic sentiments and the use of rules that we feel are fair, such as secret balloting to chose leaders. As our feelings of trust reach their limits or as they begin to falter because experience teaches cynicism, so too does the capacity of collective institutions to function(Fukuyama, 1995). Conflicts between individual, kin and friendship based commitments and group oriented goals are ever-present in human societies and the functionality of tribal and larger scale institutions is always an issue (Edgerton 1992), but the fact that human societies can often successfully use collective action to solve problems is a most striking adaptation consistent with the existence of tribal instincts and the subjective commitments to groups they make possible.
    A great many disasters result from the poor management of inter-group conflict, often because passionate commitments to the group drive reason from political discourse.
    Whether at the scale of nation-states or local street gangs, tribal and tribal-analog loyalties provide social cleavages that easily escalate into lethal violence.
    The most murderous forms of intrasocietal violence in modern societies involve civil conflicts between tribal or tribe mimicking factions.
    The struggles between interest groups in open political systems involve an even more diverse set of groups.
    Few men and fewer women will commit murder in pursuit of personal goals, to advance their families interests, or to help a friend, except in defense against murder by another. Those who do kill for such low motives we stigmatize as criminal. However, most men—women have not been so well tested—will kill their group’s enemies with relatively little reluctance, without being personally provoked, and at grave risk to their own safety.
    The existence of a tribal level of organization is the most striking derived feature of human social organization. It has no close analog in other animals. It is fundamental to our adaptations to the environments we have lived in. We make our livings in a staggeringly diversity of ways, but a common thread running across the gamut is the use of symbolically marked groups as foci of cooperation, coordination, and the division of labor. The tribal instincts hypothesis proposes that innate human predispositions to commit to their in groups arose by coevolution with group selected cultural institutions. We are adapted to living in tribes, and the social institutions of tribes elicit strong—sometimes fanatical—commitment. The instincts themselves we think of as being on the model of the principles of the Chomskian “principles and parameters” model of language. The instincts themselves constrain the kinds of societies humans can evolve, but alone are not a complete explanation of our social organization. The nature of the tribes that we commit to, the kinds of commitments we make, and the strength of those commitments all depend upon the cultural traditions that define the group and its institutions. Through the evolution of work-arounds in the last few thousand years, institutions have evolved that recruit the tribal subjective commitment to far larger and very different social systems than the tribe as the concept is understood by anthropologists.

  20. #9800

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    It's really cool that Trump and Bolton are steering us into a conflict with Iran. I'm sure the pacifists like Walter, and Moli will be chiming in with concerns and analysis shortly.

    Honestly though, he's acting like more like a mad king every day. Between this and the escalating trade war with China, it's increasingly less logical to pretend Trump is semi-competent.

  21. #9801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    "And keep your damn spyware filled phones and equipment off our networks..."


    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1SK2P1
    Until Trump gives up his unsecured iPhone, he can go blow goats.

  22. #9802
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVAllen View Post
    Until Trump gives up his unsecured iPhone, he can go blow goats.
    There is no such thing as an unsecured iPhone... You must be thinking of Android-based phones.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  23. #9803
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    It's really cool that Trump and Bolton are steering us into a conflict with Iran. I'm sure the pacifists like Walter, and Moli will be chiming in with concerns and analysis shortly.

    Honestly though, he's acting like more like a mad king every day. Between this and the escalating trade war with China, it's increasingly less logical to pretend Trump is semi-competent.


    I definitely don't want a war with Iran. There, I said it. Hopefully the 25 people that look at this site are persuaded enough by my opinion that it leads to Trump backing off.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  24. #9804

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    Oh goodie Trump wants poor picked-on alt-righties to let him when they've been censored on social media. What fucking a dimwit catering to sensative snowflakes:


    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/15/1...s-social-media


    On Wednesday, the White House launched a new tool for people to use if they feel they’ve been wrongly censored, banned, or suspended on social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter.

    “Too many Americans have seen their accounts suspended, banned, or fraudulently reported for unclear ‘violations’ of user policies,” the site reads. “No matter your views, if you suspect political bias caused such an action to be taken against you, share your story with President Trump.”



    Over the past few months, Republicans have taken aim at social media networks, citing claims that conservatives have been wrongly censored on these platforms. Some committees, like House Energy and Commerce and Senate Judiciary, have even held hearings on the issue where lawmakers questioned officials from companies like Facebook and Twitter over the alleged bias.

    The outrage started last April when the House Judiciary Committee invited pro-Trump online personalities Diamond and Silk to discuss being “censored” on social media. This spun off into the Senate where Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) later made it a key policy issue by holding a hearing with Facebook and Twitter executives to discuss the alleged bias. Only two Democrats attended the hearing where other Republicans like Sens. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) questioned the representatives on why specific posts from their offices or from conservative films were taken down.

    Just last month, President Trump met with Twitter founder and CEO Jack Dorsey. Twitter representatives said that the meeting was supposed to focus on what the platform was doing to aid the opioid epidemic and discuss the health of the platform, but it was later reported that Trump spent a significant portion of their 30-minute discussion complaining that he was losing followers.

    Other members of the Trump family, like Don Jr., have also voiced concern of the deplatforming of right-wing activists. In a tweet last month, President Trump’s eldest son wrote “The purposeful & calculated silencing of conservatives on Facebook & the rest of the Big Tech monopoly men should terrify everyone,” after Facebook announced that it would banning conspiracy theorist Alex Jones along with other far-right pundits and activists.

    The tool, which is hosted on Typeform, asks users for screenshots and links of the offending content, and provides a text field where users can describe the enforcement actions taken against them. The user is also asked to choose between Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Youtube or “other” as the platform where the offense took place. (Facebook and Google did not immediately respond to a request for comment.)

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/15/1...s-social-media

  25. #9805
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    It's really cool that Trump and Bolton are steering us into a conflict with Iran. I'm sure the pacifists like Walter, and Moli will be chiming in with concerns and analysis shortly.

    Honestly though, he's acting like more like a mad king every day. Between this and the escalating trade war with China, it's increasingly less logical to pretend Trump is semi-competent.
    War with Iran will be great. Iran has lots of oil so we can liberate them of it. The war will pay for itself. It's a slam dunk.

    Same with Venezuela. Lots of oil. Another slam dunk.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  26. #9806

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    War with Iran will be great. Iran has lots of oil so we can liberate them of it. The war will pay for itself. It's a slam dunk.

    Same with Venezuela. Lots of oil. Another slam dunk.
    OMG we finally agree!

  27. #9807
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Oh goodie Trump wants poor picked-on alt-righties to let him when they've been censored on social media. What fucking a dimwit catering to sensative snowflakes:


    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/15/1...s-social-media





    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/15/1...s-social-media
    Yeah, free speech is overrated!

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  28. #9808
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    OMG we finally agree!
    Now go and get President Trump to partake.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  29. #9809
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    War with Iran will be great. Iran has lots of oil so we can liberate them of it. The war will pay for itself. It's a slam dunk.

    Same with Venezuela. Lots of oil. Another slam dunk.
    We don’t need Iran’s oil. Texas now has the largest oil producing field in the world and it’s ramping up big time.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  30. #9810

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    We don’t need Iran’s oil. Texas now has the largest oil producing field in the world and it’s ramping up big time.
    I don't think it's about oil nearly as much as it is about John Bolton just being a fan of war.

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