Europe has been rebuilt. NATO is obsolete and should go away.
You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump
Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst
You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump
Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst
This explains a lot. You don't actually read my posts. Three posts above yours I wrote that I don't like him and don't want him leading our country. But you see what you want to see, not what I actually write. I have said repeatedly that I don't like Trump, will criticize things he does that I don't like, but I'll also support the actions I like.
Cowboy gets it, though.
Can we have these political discussions without getting personal? We seem to spend more time talking about posters and their moral failings for supporting/not supporting Trump than actual political issues. Come on, folks.
"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
What?
Here's what Trump actually said:
How does reduce your dependence on Russia, stop sending Russia so much money for gas, and start paying your fair share to be able to defend as part of NATO realign the US closer to Russia? What is happening is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you say. Trump wants NATO and especially Germany to step up. Germany only has a few functioning fighter jets and uses broomsticks for guns in training because they underfund their defense so much. It's embarrasing. Even if Trump could have delivered the message more diplomatically, what part of what he said is incorrect? Seriously, I'd like to know.“Germany, as far as I’m concerned, is captive to Russia because it’s getting so much of its energy from Russia,” Trump told NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, in a fiery on-camera exchange that was among the harshest in the history of the post-World War II alliance.
“We have to talk about the billions and billions of dollars that’s being paid to the country we’re supposed to be protecting you against,” Trump said, referring to European purchases of Russian natural gas.
BTW, you ever sat in a meeting with Germans? I do all the time. They are the most direct, speak-your-mind, say-it-to-your-face people you will ever meet. They can handle it.
I used to believe he was a normal person deep down and all that crazy rhetoric was to mobilize the mobile homes for the election. I was soon proven wrong by his doubling down on his contempt for immigrants, DACA kids, refugees, Muslims, and non-whites. He's bad for America like Sean Hannity.
"I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"
I'm having a hard time understanding how German businesses buying oil and gas from the most efficient supplier for them should have anything to do with international alliances between Germany the country and the US. It sounds to me more like a rhetorical smokescreen to excuse Trump's attempts to do something Putin really likes which is to stir up trouble in the US relationship with Germany and the rest of Western Europe.
Last edited by Uncle Ted; 07-11-2018 at 11:56 AM.
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
Who would stand to gain if NATO was abolished? Say if there was no visible Western front to provide a unified resistance to Russian shenanigans?
"I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
Uh, Germany would still buy it if the Russians took them over, actually probably even more so. Spoils of war, right?
Also, PUTIN sure doesn't talk or act like he thinks NATO is obsolete. It's more like a giant pain in his ass that he hopes Donald Trump can do his bidding to get rid of for him. It would make it a little easier for him to run the tanks into places like the Baltics or Poland. the Russian economy sucks. A country that big with an economy that produces the same as Italy? Pathetic. Putin's old school dictator style instead of opening up freedoms and markets is to fix that by taking over other countries.
Last edited by BlueK; 07-11-2018 at 12:21 PM.
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
That would be nice.
I specifically used "people" instead of "you" in my last paragraph to be clear I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone here. I was more talking about all the things I've seen on social and main-stream media since I posted about it yesterday.The Hammond case is one of the most blatant violations of civil liberty and the 8th Amendment I can think of. I think there are plenty of cases where the 8th amendment is stretched and even broken, particularly in drug-related crimes and the 3-strikes laws, but this was a case where they were already sentenced and then the administration appealed it to make it unduly harsh. On top of all of that, the whole thing was part of a massive extortion effort to force the Hammonds to sell their private property to the government because it lay in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge. Granted, the Hammonds weren't perfect and they made mistakes, but their sentence was a travesty.
Trump absolutely did the right thing, and it is either ignored or criticized by Trump-haters across the country. It's depressing when hate consumes people so much that they'd rather let innocent people suffer than admit a bad person actually did a very good thing. It doesn't make him good, just right in this case. In fact, I doubt it would have made his radar had he not been taking so much heat from farmers who are part of his base and very pissed off at him over the tariffs.
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
"Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
I guess it depends on how you view Russia. If Russia is now a benign neighbor and merely a trading partner, then sure go with the most efficient. If Russia remains a threat and a geopolitical foe, then getting too much of a strategic resource from them means a dependency that brings real risk to your national security. If it's A, then you have to question the value of NATO (as Walter has), which was setup to defend Western Europe from the Soviet Union and its satellite states. If it's B, then Trump's questioning is valid.
I know this case hits home to you, but I think it pales in comparison the damage our government has done via mandatory minimum sentencing, racial profiling, and drug laws in general. This was an overreach against a rancher. The War on Drugs has devastated countless poor and black people. Yes, Trump did the right thing but it didn't take much courage to pardon some white red-state folks.
"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
Driving around during the noon hour, I was listening to Fox (!) and was very impressed by Shepard Smith's total takedown of Trump's statements regarding NATO and our allies, pointing out several Trump lies and why NATO is important. It's too bad Trump turns off Fox during the period between Fox and Friends and Hannity, but one hopes he gets the message eventually.
"There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
FOX?!?
Yeah, I don't know where Drumpf gets the idea that military spending is 4.2% of GDP... it is more like 3.6%:
nato.jpg
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmc.../#7e264fde14cf
LOL... we should get out of NATO just so we are no longer associated with all these loser countries.
"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
"Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
Well, not in my exclusive neighborhood!
Bend has a nice nexus of rednecks (east side) and hippies (west side). There certainly is a sizable group that sympathizes with the ranchers in Eastern Oregon. But there's plenty of progressive folks on the other side of the river. Most people play nice and meet in the middle.