President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am being serious (and don't call my Shirley). You want to start with the ME? OK, then.

Iraq
Syria
Yemen
Afghanistan

Any immigrant person originating from these countries should be automatically admitted to the US out of courtesy for having a hand in fucking up their country.

(Also, a shout-out to Iran... who had the good sense to kick us out after getting tired of fucking up/with their country.)

Where to next? Asia, Africa?

That list is funny. Yeah, those countries were in fantastic shape before the USA screwed thing up! Friggin’ gardens of eden.

[frank ryan]

Okay, that's a far cry from 150. I'm very sympathetic to your position, especially when it comes to Iraq (particularly those that worked with the US over the years). The other three are debatable since they were basket cases before the U.S. got involved. But those that have worked with us should get special consideration.

It's not like the US is the first, second or even third most responsible party for the state of affairs in Syria. Yemen is also massively complicated.

[BlueK]

Man trumps trade advisors are as dumb on trade as trump. True idiots

Peter Navarro is the main one now, with to a lesser extent Wilbur Ross. Navarro is a lifelong protectionist liberal democrat. He was brought onto the administration specifically because Trump had his son-in-law search for someone who would emulate Trump's ignorant protectionist biases he's held for 30+ years. It was very difficult to find anyone in the economics field who held such views because trade is an area where there is near unanimity that free trade is best, regardless of whether it's a politically liberal or conservative economist. So that's who they were able to dig up. Navarro has written some books arguing for the protectionist side, but it makes one wonder if that's mostly because there's a market for that view among the general population that was not being "served" because it's so hard to find a protectionist economist these days.

For the first year or so Trump has been held back from fully jumping into his worst protectionist impulses by several other free trade leaning advisers around him, but they're pretty much all gone now.

[BlueK]

Should ring some alarm bells. If nothing else, Trump will accidentally share a bunch of sensitive intel. It will be interesting to see what Trump does re. foreign policy over the month or so following his meeting with his boss.

This is likely going to be a bonanza for Putin.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...sian-president

We'll see what happens, but after this summit we should really know whether we need to move past the denial stage when it comes to wondering if Trump is purposely pursuing a pro-Russia/anti-Western Europe foreign policy. And hopefully Republicans can finally move into a more productive conversation about whether that's a good idea.

[creekster]

I am being serious (and don't call my Shirley). You want to start with the ME? OK, then.

Iraq
Syria
Yemen
Afghanistan

Any immigrant person originating from these countries should be automatically admitted to the US out of courtesy for having a hand in fucking up their country.

(Also, a shout-out to Iran... who had the good sense to kick us out after getting tired of fucking up/with their country.)


Where to next? Asia, Africa?

This post makes me sad. You and I had found so much common ground recently. Oh well. I have no idea what you mean by arguing that a "military presence" has screwed up these countries. The british did more to screw these places up before world war II than we have done since. And dont leave out the Soviets whjen you talk about Afghanistan. In fact, I think you can argue that we have had a pretty positive influence on a lot of these places.

In my mind, especially as it relates to immigration, the place we have screwed up is Latin America, and especially Central America. Sometimes from a military presence but more often from political influence peddling and from CIA/clandestine interference. Things like placing General Rios Mont in power in Guatemala. We have made a mess of our own backyard. Over and over again. As far as the ME goes, we are just one of the players there, historically speaking, and the place has been a mess for centuries.

It is easy to condemn the USA, of course, but we must also fairly evaluate the positive influence we have had in many of these places.

[Walter Sobchak]

after this summit we should really know whether we need to move past the denial stage when it comes to wondering if Trump is purposely pursuing a pro-Russia/anti-Western Europe foreign policy.

Pretty sure after this summit, no matter the outcome, you'll be here sharing with us the most apocalyptic take imaginable.

This post makes me sad. You and I had found so much common ground recently. Oh well. I have no idea what you mean by arguing that a "military presence" has screwed up these countries. The british did more to screw these places up before world war II than we have done since. And dont leave out the Soviets whjen you talk about Afghanistan. In fact, I think you can argue that we have had a pretty positive influence on a lot of these places.

"Had a hand" ... jesus, I don't give a shit about other countries (the Brits, the Russians, et al) as I'm not a citizen there. But let me help you out... we have had a very heavy presence in Afghanistan since 2001 for fuck's sake.

In my mind, especially as it relates to immigration, the place we have screwed up is Latin America, and especially Central America. Sometimes from a military presence but more often from political influence peddling and from CIA/clandestine interference. Things like placing General Rios Mont in power in Guatemala. We have made a mess of our own backyard. Over and over again. As far as the ME goes, we are just one of the players there, historically speaking, and the place has been a mess for centuries.

Uh, yeah, NSS, I asked where we should go next from the ME... with regard to listing the countries that the US has fucked over, we haven't even touched Asia, Africa, and yes, Latin/South America.

[BlueK]

Pretty sure after this summit, no matter the outcome, you'll be here sharing with us the most apocalyptic take imaginable.

And you'll be losing your mind over it, no doubt.

[Walter Sobchak]

And you'll be losing your mind over it, no doubt.

I'd rather you acted more like a realist, but you are what you are.

[creekster]

Pretty sure after this summit, no matter the outcome, you'll be here sharing with us the most apocalyptic take imaginable.




"Had a hand" ... jesus, I don't give a shit about other countries (the Brits, the Russians, et al) as I'm not a citizen there. But let me help you out... we have had a very heavy presence in Afghanistan since 2001 for fuck's sake.



Uh, yeah, NSS, I asked where we should go next from the ME... with regard to listing the countries that the US has fucked over, we haven't even touched Asia, Africa, and yes, Latin/South America.

You're sort of wandering here. I assumed, althoiugh did not know, that you are not a citizen of RUssia or GB. But the issue is if your proposed immigration poolicy is desrieable or justified. As a refresher, here is what you proposed:

Pretty simple. If a person can prove citizenship from any of the 150 countries around the world where US troops are deployed, then they get in - no questions asked - as it is very likely the US contributed to fucking up the country enough to cause the immigration to occur.

Putting aside the absurd proposal itself (everyone from 150 countries admitted no questions asked) I am wondering if there is any validity to the idea that the mere fact of some sort of military deployment caused a mess that led to immigration from each of those 150 countries. I can only assume that your proposal is just to make a point because, in fact, it makes no sense and is internally inconsistent. Moreover, The USA has caused problems in a lot fo places, but the ME problems existed long before we were around and will continue for reasons that have little or nothing to do with us even if we pull out, completely, tomorrow.

[Walter Sobchak]

but the ME problems existed long before we were around and will continue for reasons that have little or nothing to do with us even if we pull out, completely, tomorrow.

Then let's do that. Duh.

[creekster]

Then let's do that. Duh.

To large degree I agree with you (although some of our interests are served by staying there to some extent, and I think we should pursue that course).

[BlueK]

I'd rather you acted more like a realist, but you are what you are.

I'm being realistic by asking what is a legitimate question, which is where is Trump going with Russia and with dogging Europe, and is it a wise policy? The GOP needs to actually start discussing it. To this point it appears to me that they've been mostly in denial mode that anything is changing. Or they are at the very least avoiding talking publicly about it. Also realistically, it's highly wishful thinking that Trump is acting how he is toward Russia out of some kind of realistic wisdom.

[Walter Sobchak]

I'm being realistic by asking what is a legitimate question, which is where is Trump going with Russia

I'll put out some suggestions from the article that I shared.

First and foremost... the article explains that compromise is inevitable, yet will still require respect for both nations’ interests.

Or in other words, the bipartisan Russia fear-mongering here in the US has just got to end. It's gotten beyond stupid. "Russia’s critics present a long bill of requirements to be met before they would relax sanctions or otherwise improve relations. Putin could save time by agreeing to be an American vassal."

1. End the Russia sanctions, they accomplish nothing.
2. Trump and Putin could make a bilateral commitment to stay out of other nations’ elections.
3. The two presidents should agree to mutual forbearance on supporting war (e.g. stop fucking with other countries; Russia w/ Ukraine, the US w/ {insert long list here})
4. Trump should propose that both countries withdraw from Syria.
5. addressing the faltering Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty
6. revisiting the soon-expiring Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Trump fires Pruitt. LOL. Kidding. But Trump did accept his letter of resignation. That’s something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Goatnapper'96]

Trump fires Pruitt. LOL. Kidding. But Trump did accept his letter of resignation. That’s something.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Score one for Maxine's Army!

[Commando]

Score one for Maxine's Army!

Or America in general. That guy was something else.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Score one for Maxine's Army!

His wife must have gotten that Chick fil-a gig!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueK]

Or America in general. That guy was something else.

His own staffers going public last week about the insane corruption they've been seeing may have been what finally pushed this over the top.

[Commando]

When his own staffers started going public about the insane level of corruption they were seeing it seems to have finally been too much for him to hang on.

How crazy that it took this long, though? Dude was having his staffers use their personal credit cards to make his travel arrangements and then not reimbursing them? That's like... some Vivint shenanigans or something...

[BlueK]

How crazy that it took this long, though? Dude was having his staffers use their personal credit cards to make his travel arrangements and then not reimbursing them? That's like... some Vivint shenanigans or something...

It's crazy how freaking brazen he was about using his position to personally enrich himself.

[BlueK]

I'll put out some suggestions from the article that I shared.

First and foremost... the article explains that compromise is inevitable, yet will still require respect for both nations’ interests.

Or in other words, the bipartisan Russia fear-mongering here in the US has just got to end. It's gotten beyond stupid. "Russia’s critics present a long bill of requirements to be met before they would relax sanctions or otherwise improve relations. Putin could save time by agreeing to be an American vassal."

1. End the Russia sanctions, they accomplish nothing.
2. Trump and Putin could make a bilateral commitment to stay out of other nations’ elections.
3. The two presidents should agree to mutual forbearance on supporting war (e.g. stop fucking with other countries; Russia w/ Ukraine, the US w/ {insert long list here})
4. Trump should propose that both countries withdraw from Syria.
5. addressing the faltering Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty
6. revisiting the soon-expiring Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty

Those are legitimate issues to take up with them. I just don't think Trump is any way up to the task of doing it responsibly.

[BlueK]

This piece of Trump propaganda is a fun read.

https://amgreatness.com/2018/07/05/a...can-awakening/

[Walter Sobchak]

(although some of our interests are served by staying there to some extent, and I think we should pursue that course).

US govt/pundits/journalists/citizens will always justify blowing up some other country's brown civilians by listing some generic {waves hands} "interests" so that the massacres are more palatable. No argument there!

[creekster]

US govt/pundits/journalists/citizens will always justify blowing up some other country's brown civilians by listing some generic {waves hands} "interests" so that the massacres are more palatable. No argument there!

I'd blow up white ones, too, if it was necessary. Complete isolationism is as easy and as bad an idea as complete interventionism. At this point you are obviously stepping away from defending your original immigration idea, which does not surprise me. I certainly agree, however, that we need to massively recalibrate what is an acceptable level of intervention.

[BlueK]

Interesting op ed from a former Republican, still current conservative. it is an opinion piece, obviously, about the state of the GOP currently, but I think he makes some great points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.c860307750de

[Walter Sobchak]

Interesting op ed from a former Republican, still current conservative. it is an opinion piece, obviously, about the state of the GOP currently, but I think he makes some great points.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.c860307750de

I wonder if Schmidt sees a straight line between Palin and Trump.

[frank ryan]

Those are legitimate issues to take up with them. I just don't think Trump is any way up to the task of doing it responsibly.

A lot of good stuff on that list, but on point three Russia’s list would be more significant than just Ukraine. They are basically occupying chunks of Georgia, inserted special forces into Montenegro in a bid to assassinate a pro-NATO leader, support/have troops in a breakaway region of Moldova, played a role in helping the Syrian regime use chemical weapons on civilians, aggressively assassinated individuals in the UK and elsewhere, often in a very public manner. I’m sure there is more.

[BlueK]

I wonder if Schmidt sees a straight line between Palin and Trump.

He probably does as he has already admitted Palin was a big mistake.

[BlueK]

A lot of good stuff on that list, but on point three Russia’s list would be more significant than just Ukraine. They are basically occupying chunks of Georgia, inserted special forces into Montenegro in a bid to assassinate a pro-NATO leader, support/have troops in a breakaway region of Moldova, played a role in helping the Syrian regime use chemical weapons on civilians, aggressively assassinated individuals in the UK and elsewhere, often in a very public manner. I’m sure there is more.

--would love to invade the Baltics and bring home those rogues as part of Putin's stated goal of restoring the glory of the CCCP.

[Omaha 680]

Trump to meet with Putin alone. Very unusual.

They're totally going to make out like in that mural.