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Thread: President Trump: Making America Great Again...

  1. #7711

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    You love an echo chamber, too.
    yikes, feelings hurt by an informed perspective. snowflake much?
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  2. #7712
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveCoug View Post
    Maybe they can rename it "NICE"? Would that placate democrats?
    Maybe, as long as that Oscario lady was out in charge.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  3. #7713
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    yikes, feelings hurt by an informed perspective. snowflake much?
    Trump is Hitler! Trump is a monster! Trump is going to eliminate presidential term limits! Trump will rig elections! Yeah, super informed opinions.

  4. #7714

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Trump is Hitler! Trump is a monster! Trump is going to eliminate presidential term limits! Trump will rig elections! Yeah, super informed opinions.
    pretty triggered there, snowflake
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  5. #7715
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    pretty triggered there, snowflake

  6. #7716
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    You love an echo chamber, too.
    What? Didn’t I welcome you back? Calm down buddy.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  7. #7717

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    What? Didn’t I welcome you back? Calm down buddy.
    I don't get any of these recent digs about this place being any echo chamber. It's never been that.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  8. #7718
    Senior Member Crockett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    What? Didn’t I welcome you back? Calm down buddy.
    You did and that was neighborly. Thank you.

    I said the echo chamber comment because it seems alternative, minority, conservative viewpoints don't seem so welcome in here and you've cheerled other posters when I've posted such before. Maybe it's more perception than reality, tho.

    I do think my posts are fairly tame and I get the calm down treatment. Commando gets ragey and he gets the I love you treatment.

  9. #7719
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    I very much sympathize with the plight of people seeking a better life here. I don't think immigration should be merit-based only. I would support a system that allows not only legitimate asylum-seekers, but also people that just want a better life. Maybe that's a lottery, maybe there is a better way.
    Pretty simple. If a person can prove citizenship from any of the 150 countries around the world where US troops are deployed, then they get in - no questions asked - as it is very likely the US contributed to fucking up the country enough to cause the immigration to occur.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  10. #7720
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    You did and that was neighborly. Thank you.

    I said the echo chamber comment because it seems alternative, minority, conservative viewpoints don't seem so welcome in here and you've cheerled other posters when I've posted such before. Maybe it's more perception than reality, tho.

    I do think my posts are fairly tame and I get the calm down treatment. Commando gets ragey and he gets the I love you treatment.
    Ragey. Lol. You are clearly not a student of my posts.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  11. #7721
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    You did and that was neighborly. Thank you.

    I said the echo chamber comment because it seems alternative, minority, conservative viewpoints don't seem so welcome in here and you've cheerled other posters when I've posted such before. Maybe it's more perception than reality, tho.

    I do think my posts are fairly tame and I get the calm down treatment. Commando gets ragey and he gets the I love you treatment.
    For the record, I love Commando because he seems like a genuinely kind and compassionate person, he is extremely knowledgable about immigration issues, and he takes the time to explain things clearly and thoroughly. And we go way back. That comment was not a slam on you. Stick around.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  12. #7722
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Pretty simple. If a person can prove citizenship from any of the 150 countries around the world where US troops are deployed, then they get in - no questions asked - as it is very likely the US contributed to fucking up the country enough to cause the immigration to occur.
    For sure. Germany, Italy, UK, Spain, Japan, Korea, Bahrain. That's almost 90% of overseas deployments. Those are real basket cases.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  13. #7723

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Have I been arguing immigration law on here? Don't assume I'm the same as some people on your or your friends' facebook feeds. You may think you know me and lump me in with others, but I'm not some blind Trump supporter. I fall in the Mitt Romney and / or Ben Shapiro camp -- I'm pleased with and will support Trump's progress on conservative goals and policies, but will not hesitate to criticize and NOT support stuff when it's wrong. I don't automatically assume the best or the worst with him. I much preferred other candidates over Trump, but I have no regrets having him as president versus Hillary. That was the choice.

    BTW, are you for open borders? Should anyone who wants to move here be allowed to? If not, we can probably get close to agreeing with one another. As you said, there are finite resources. We can't absorb everyone that might want to move here. I'm not for completely closed borders. I very much sympathize with the plight of people seeking a better life here. I don't think immigration should be merit-based only. I would support a system that allows not only legitimate asylum-seekers, but also people that just want a better life. Maybe that's a lottery, maybe there is a better way. I would support a guest worker program that allows some people to come and go legally. I'm not totally aligned with Trump on border issues, but I do think we need to enforce our borders and know who is coming and going. Other countries do so, but when the US does then we are horrible, apparently.

    Also, I'd like people to recognize the genuine difficulty and nuance of the immigration matter, without going full blast and calling everyone monsters. There are significant numbers of adults traveling with children that they are not related to. There is some human trafficking going on. How do we protect children in those situations? Separation is sometimes appropriate.



    I'm not on here arguing immigration law so chill out. It's as if you are taking your facebook feed anger and directing it at me now that you are on an anonymous board.



    Sure, you are right here. We do have finite resources. Enforcement is a choice, but unless you are for open borders, the matter is more complicated and nuanced than just calling other people monsters. This article seems like a reasonable overview of the matter to me. You hate Trump already, so you seem to view everything he does in the worst possible, most sinister way.

    But hey, it all appears to be okay when Democrats do it, though.

    Clinton:



    Obama:





    Trump shouldn't have said that, but the Democrats are plenty guilty here. They just send their SEIU goons to do their dirty work for them and beat up republican protesters.



    It's not an either or. Trump appears to making some progress with the VA, and has made more of an effort than his predecessor, but there is far more to do here. I do think the VA should be getting our best efforts.

    One last thing. I come here in peace. You don't have to get ragey to convince / have a discussion with me.
    But Clinton from year 2000? Lol

  14. #7724

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockett View Post
    Trump is Hitler! Trump is a monster! Trump is going to eliminate presidential term limits! Trump will rig elections! Yeah, super informed opinions.
    No one argued that. But defending arresting any and every illegal is pretty bad.why are you defending ice and trump?

  15. #7725

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    For sure. Germany, Italy, UK, Spain, Japan, Korea, Bahrain. That's almost 90% of overseas deployments. Those are real basket cases.
    Ron Paul 2012!
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  16. #7726
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    For sure. Germany, Italy, UK, Spain, Japan, Korea, Bahrain. That's almost 90% of overseas deployments. Those are real basket cases.
    Ay, there's the rub.


    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Ron Paul 2012!
    T-shirt still fits!
    Last edited by Walter Sobchak; 07-01-2018 at 10:25 PM.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  17. #7727
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Ay, there's the rub.
    Oh, so you're picking cherries.

    Picking Cherries.jpg
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  18. #7728
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Oh, so you're picking cherries.
    Let me explain math: 90 < 100 and 7 <<<< 150. YW.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  19. #7729

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    If you're keeping score at home, here is your trade war scoreboard. The China related tariffs imposed by both countries go into effect by the end of this week, and could be rather significant given the size of the two economies.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...ned-2018-06-22

    Companies that use steel are being hurt already by the existing tariffs, already leading to layoffs for some:

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/29/news...ons/index.html

    Finally, Trump got his staff to draft a bill (the US Fair and Reciprocal Tariff Act) he'd like to see Congress pass. It would give him basically unlimited authority around trade and tariffs. Apparently almost everyone who worked on it warned him it was DOA in Congress but he's insisted. It has appropriately been given the acronym "FART." Even with Trump it gets so crazy you can't even make it up.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/le...ort-2018-07-02

  20. #7730
    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Let me explain math: 90 < 100 and 7 <<<< 150. YW.
    I don't know which is more impressive: that with less than 10% of its overseas deployments the U.S. was able to do so much harm to 143 nations that it caused portions of their respective populations to want to come to the U.S., or that your cynicism about the U.S. is so severe that you believe that happened.

  21. #7731
    Explosivo Commando's Avatar
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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.f26c756079b9


    Here’s a pretty succinct demolition of some of the dumber fake-racist-mormon arguments floating around social media re: the righteousness of asylum seekers.
    "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

  22. #7732
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I don't know which is more impressive: that with less than 10% of its overseas deployments the U.S. was able to do so much harm to 143 nations that it caused portions of their respective populations to want to come to the U.S., or that your cynicism about the U.S. is so severe that you believe that happened.
    From Yemen to Iraq to the Banana Wars, I can't imagine where my cynicism comes from... can you?
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  23. #7733

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    From Yemen to Iraq to the Banana Wars, I can't imagine where my cynicism comes from... can you?
    I don't remember your opinion on Trump re. the Iran Deal.
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

  24. #7734
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlo...=.f26c756079b9


    Here’s a pretty succinct demolition of some of the dumber fake-racist-mormon arguments floating around social media re: the righteousness of asylum seekers.
    You lost me. Are fake racist mormon's saying that asylum seekers are righteous?

    As for the article - thanks for sharing it. I honestly believe that most of the asylum seekers (maybe all of them, I don't know) fear for their lives and are trying to escape. I don't have any faith in or trust of the legal systems in really any of those countries they are coming from to protect them - or even pretend they are trying to protect them. There is so much corruption among law enforcement and in the judicial system that isn't impossible to know where they can get justice or safety. I get that.

    I think the problem is - as you have indicated - there is a lack of education. And it's past articles coming from other perspectives that have driven some of this. Here's just one example:

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...fear-of-home-/

    Nearly one out of every 10 illegal immigrants crossing the southwest border is now demanding asylum, using “magic words” to claim they fear their home country, and turning a program intended to be a humanitarian lifeline into a new path for unauthorized migrants to gain a foothold in the U.S.

    It’s a major change over just the last five years as lax Obama administration policies entice ever-more migrants to try to exploit the loophole, which the Border Patrol’s chief calls a “fail in policy.”

    In 2010, less than 1 percent of those at the border were requesting asylum from the agents or officers who nabbed them. Now it’s 9 percent, according to statistics the Immigration Reform Law Institute pried loose from the government through an open-records request and provided to The Washington Times.

    The migrants are being coached by friends and family or smugglers, who collect thousands of dollars per person for their efforts, on the “magic words” to say to get put on the asylum track, border officials say.

    “We know that they’re coaching individuals on specifically what to say when they come here, that they just rattle off and they memorize the magic words that they need to say so that they’ll fall within the statute of credible fear,” Border Patrol Chief Mark Morgan told the Senate Homeland Security Committee in a hearing last week.
    Now - the reality may be that these people were ALWAYS appropriate asylum seekers who simply didn't know the process, or what to say, or how to describe things. I've worked with abused and neglected kids enough to know that because that's the way life has always been - their normal, per se - they don't necessarily recognize it as being wrong or out of place. And it wouldn't surprise me to hear that many people seeking asylum come from places where their norm is so horrific that they don't know any different - and don't understand what asylum means or what it means to not be in a place where their lives are constantly in danger. So I get that too. Chances are they were always appropriate to seek asylum, just didn't know it or the process.

    Unfortunately - articles like this one, that make it seem like the increase of people seeking asylum is more related to the exploitation of some loophole for others to make a buck off of, put the whole asylum aspect of immigration in a bad light. And that is what you're fighting.

  25. #7735
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I don't remember your opinion on Trump re. the Iran Deal.
    President Trump made a colossal mistake. Why?
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  26. #7736
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I don't know which is more impressive: that with less than 10% of its overseas deployments the U.S. was able to do so much harm to 143 nations that it caused portions of their respective populations to want to come to the U.S., or that your cynicism about the U.S. is so severe that you believe that happened.
    Never underestimate the depth of Walter's cynicism.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  27. #7737
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak on 02-08-2017, 12:36 PM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    We're not perfect, but we're still not Russia or Putin. What bothers me is the thought that Trump says nice things about the world's thugs and insults countries that are friendly to us. Bullies unite! I don't want this kind of insane world view from our president to come back to hurt our country. Doesn't matter much if the crazy old man who lives down the street talks like that and lives in a world of fake news sources. It does when it's the President.
    Like I said before, those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Must we really plumb the depths of moral depravity in this way? "Oh, we aren't as bad as Russia. How dare President Trump?!"

    How about we hold ourselves to our own (crumbling) standards? Is that too much to ask?

    Russia bombs Chechnya. Russia does this, Russia does that. That is an OUTRAGE!!!

    We systematically torture prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. We obliterate a village in Yemen last week. Ah, shucks. Oopsies!

    I'm no fan of Russia. It's just that I think the USA is an exceptional country, the most successful country in world history. Hands down. But where I part ways with many (and you perhaps) is that I don't feel that our "exceptionalism" burdens us with the special quasi-religious mission to police the world and "liberate" it from its immoral leaders. Unfortunately, our recent pursuits to this end (Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now Yemen) have ultimately deprived us of what makes us exceptional. We have sunk, by degrees, to a diminished moral status. That's the unvarnished truth that our imperfect President has laid bare.

    President Trump's vision is a double-edged sword though. I've said this also. On the one side, he condemned the Iraq War and criticized the interventionalism of President Obama's administration in Syria and Libya. Yet, on the other side, he belligerently saber rattles with Iran and the MAGA nationalism of his hard-core base (and their neoconservative Republican party cheerleaders) will view any attempt to reach out to old enemies (e.g. Russia) as appeasement and a sign of "weakness".

    I don't have any idea which way President Trump will fall (and it's hopeless to make any predictions), but hopefully this President Trump will:

    Unlike other candidates for the presidency, war and aggression will not be my first instinct. You cannot have a foreign policy without diplomacy. A superpower understands that caution and restraint are really truly signs of strength. Although not in government service, I was totally against the war in Iraq, very proudly, saying for many years that it would destabilize the Middle East. Sadly, I was correct…

    My goal is to establish a foreign policy that will endure for several generations. That’s why I also look and have to look for talented experts with approaches and practical ideas, rather than surrounding myself with those who have perfect résumés but very little to brag about except responsibility for a long history of failed policies and continued losses at war. We have to look to new people.
    If one of these "new" people is Elliott Abrams (rumored for the position of Deputy SoS), then the belligerent side of Trump's sword will likely consume the other. gg..
    Effing cynics.
    Last edited by Walter Sobchak; 07-02-2018 at 09:39 AM.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  28. #7738
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Never underestimate the depth of Walter's cynicism.
    Like an unfunny Don Rickles.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  29. #7739
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Like an unfunny Don Rickles.
    It has been said that I'm funny 5% of time.
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  30. #7740
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    It has been said that I'm funny 5% of time.
    Hey come on. Don't sell yourself short. 10% at least!
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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