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  • Originally posted by falafel View Post
    Or, thanks Americans for no longer buying small sedans.
    Stop bringing rational arguments into blueK’s irrational assessment. I mean, GM is obviously closing a plant in Canada because of Trump tariffs
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
      Stop bringing rational arguments into blueK’s irrational assessment. I mean, GM is obviously closing a plant in Canada because of Trump tariffs
      And Ford stopped making all sedans except the Mustang because they foresaw the tariffs coming this year.
      Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

      "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
        Stop bringing rational arguments into blueK’s irrational assessment. I mean, GM is obviously closing a plant in Canada because of Trump tariffs
        Come on, hardly irrational. Costs have to be a factor. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. I didn't mean to say the tariffs were the ONLY factor. But to pretend this policy which is designed to make steel and aluminum more expensive for everyone who uses those materials can be brushed off when decisions like this start to come down through the economy, is not very rational when we're talking about a company that uses them to the degree a car manufacturer does. Of course, the reasoning companies make public for decisions like these ALWAYS states every relevant factor, right? To say it's only about what types of cars these plants were making at the time is a little fishy at best. One of them is 100 years old. It wasn't making the same cars back then and had to have been reconfigured many times over the years. Why wouldn't they do that again? Companies don't downsize their way to greatness.

        https://www.cato.org/publications/co...trumps-tariffs

        The article above from two months ago says GM was already considering cutting jobs because of higher costs due to tariffs. Well, they just did.

        Ford: The carmaker faces $300 million in extra costs this year due to escalating tariffs. It took a $300 million hit in the most recent quarter because of pricier commodities such as steel and aluminum, whose costs have been inflated by tariffs.

        General Motors: The carmaker, which cut its earnings forecast for the year because of surging prices for steel and aluminum caused by tariffs, is considering cutting U.S. jobs.
        Last edited by BlueK; 11-26-2018, 02:37 PM.

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        • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
          Come on, hardly irrational. Costs have to be a factor. These decisions aren't made in a vacuum. I didn't mean to say the tariffs were the ONLY factor.
          But it was the only factor you chose to blame in your drive-by post.
          Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

          "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by falafel View Post
            But it was the only factor you chose to blame in your drive-by post.
            You're pretty good at being a stickler for the meaningless.

            25% higher costs on a major component needed by a huge manufacturer is not trivial. They can publicly give any reason they want for giving 15 thousand people the boot.
            Last edited by BlueK; 11-26-2018, 03:00 PM.

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            • Originally posted by falafel View Post
              Or, thanks Americans for no longer buying small sedans.
              Let's not pretend tariffs weren't significant part of the equation.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                You're pretty good at being a stickler for the meaningless.

                25% higher costs on a major component needed by a huge manufacturer is not trivial. They can publicly give any reason they want for giving 15 thousand people the boot.
                That's accurate. And you're pretty good at walking back your posts and then claiming that you didn't really mean exactly what you said.
                Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                  You're pretty good at being a stickler for the meaningless.

                  25% higher costs on a major component needed by a huge manufacturer is not trivial. They can publicly give any reason they want for giving 15 thousand people the boot.
                  Then why were jobs cut at plants that manufacture sedans and not plants that make SUVs and trucks? Surely the tariffs would have a bigger impact on bigger vehicles that use more steel and aluminum.

                  The tariffs are probably driving a reduction in profits and possibly an increase in prices, but car manufacturers are responding to consumer taste in focusing on larger vehicles, which just so happen to be the vehicles with higher profit margins.

                  There’s an interesting Freakonomics podcast out with an interview of the CEO of Ford where he discusses the changing consumer taste and how they are responding to it. They are doing exactly when GM is now doing.
                  "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                    Then why were jobs cut at plants that manufacture sedans and not plants that make SUVs and trucks? Surely the tariffs would have a bigger impact on bigger vehicles that use more steel and aluminum.

                    The tariffs are probably driving a reduction in profits and possibly an increase in prices, but car manufacturers are responding to consumer taste in focusing on larger vehicles, which just so happen to be the vehicles with higher profit margins.

                    There’s an interesting Freakonomics podcast out with an interview of the CEO of Ford where he discusses the changing consumer taste and how they are responding to it. They are doing exactly when GM is now doing.
                    Actually, I think the reverse would be true. Yes, SUVs and Crossovers take more steel to manufacture than a sedan does, but the increase in costs can more readily be absorbed in the greater profit margin of an Escalade as compared to, say, a Cruze.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                      Then why were jobs cut at plants that manufacture sedans and not plants that make SUVs and trucks? Surely the tariffs would have a bigger impact on bigger vehicles that use more steel and aluminum.

                      The tariffs are probably driving a reduction in profits and possibly an increase in prices, but car manufacturers are responding to consumer taste in focusing on larger vehicles, which just so happen to be the vehicles with higher profit margins.

                      There’s an interesting Freakonomics podcast out with an interview of the CEO of Ford where he discusses the changing consumer taste and how they are responding to it. They are doing exactly when GM is now doing.
                      Tariffs are significantly raising their costs to make either type of vehicle. Two months ago reports came out that the tariffs were going to lead to job cuts. Now they're here. Yes, they may have had issues already with over-producing sedans. That doesn't mean the tariffs don't accentuate and exacerbate the existing problem to the point that they had to close five plants. Maybe without the tariffs they cut 5k jobs instead of 15k. But to try to say the increased cost of steel and aluminum has nothing or little to do with this or make the existing problem much more dire just doesn't pass the smell test. Neither does the idea that they couldn't reconfigure at least one of those plants to produce a different type of car. I bet they'd do that if it made economic sense. The most likely reason it doesn't is because it's suddenly costing much more to make anything for them. No company wants to put out news like they just did. But of course they'll put the best face on it they can.
                      Last edited by BlueK; 11-26-2018, 06:00 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                        Let's not pretend tariffs weren't significant part of the equation.
                        The additional input costs resulting from tariffs were a rounding error compared to the overall price of the vehicle. It amounted to around 1%, and even if it was more, most people spend more money on the extra crap they don't need than the highest realistic estimate. It could easily have been passed on if people still bought sedans - but they don't. The fact is that business news outlets have been chronicling the decline of the sedan's popularity for several years, and this move just confirms that the trend remains in place.
                        sigpic
                        "Outlined against a blue, gray
                        October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
                        Grantland Rice, 1924

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                        • Why is tear gassing women worse than tear gassing men?
                          "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Moliere View Post


                            Why is tear gassing women worse than tear gassing men?
                            Ask a feminist.

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                            • Ok, so Trump threatens now to cut GM's subsidies. I have no problem with that. The government shouldn't be in that business anyway.

                              However, it seems typically illogical and contradictory of Trump, since taking money away from GM would likely only make them have to cut even more jobs, which is what he's supposed to be upset about. But we all know this is really just about Trump feeling personally slighted and is therefore lashing back.

                              In other news, the Mueller team is reportedly looking at Paul Manafort's meeting with Julian Assange in 2016. I wonder what they were talking about back then.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BlueK View Post
                                Ok, so Trump threatens now to cut GM's subsidies. I have no problem with that. The government shouldn't be in that business anyway.

                                However, it seems typically illogical and contradictory of Trump, since taking money away from GM would likely only make them have to cut even more jobs, which is what he's supposed to be upset about. But we all know this is really just about Trump feeling personally slighted and is therefore lashing back.

                                In other news, the Mueller team is reportedly looking at Paul Manafort's meeting with Julian Assange in 2016. I wonder what they were talking about back then.
                                Just ask Ted, a DNC leaker gave Assange the emails! Manafort has strong and established ties to the Kremlin and Putin and he managed Trump’s campaign for free. Super normal.

                                The leaked text messages from his daughters are really disturbing if you have checked those out Bluek

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