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Thread: Animated map of high-speed train system in the US

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    No high speed train for Cali...


    http://www.greenism.com/trump-just-k...ilway-project/

    Maybe they can use the money they would have spent on fixing up that dam, instead.
    Yes, why improve vital infrastructure in the country's most important state when you can spend billions on a fucking wall, hire 10,000 new ICE agents, and funnel billions more into new private detention facilities when immigration flow from Mexico is at net zero right now?
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Yes, why improve vital infrastructure in the country's most important state when you can spend billions on a fucking wall, hire 10,000 new ICE agents, and funnel billions more into new private detention facilities when immigration flow from Mexico is at net zero right now?
    Recall that Mexico is going to pay for that ffffucking wall... Drumpf promised.

    Maybe after Drumpf deports all the illegal immigrates places like California can pay for their own fucking high speed train...

    http://www.heritage.org/immigration/...he-us-taxpayer

    Do you think educating and providing medical care for other countries' kids is cheap?

    I am not going to pay for that ffffucking train!

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    Yeah good luck with that, Drumpf. Actually, Vicente Fox is right- unless he becomes a U.S. resident and starts paying taxes.

    And how many more billions do undocumented families pour into the economy and social security funds? Does the heritage foundation cover that, or does that information run counter to their agenda?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    No high speed train for Cali...


    http://www.greenism.com/trump-just-k...ilway-project/

    Maybe they can use the money they would have spent on fixing up that dam, instead.

    I am with you on this. Let California work out it's own salvation with fear and trembling. Most states during times of relative prosperity create a rainy day fund. Has California ever been in the black. They should have been many times with all of their great innovations out of Silicon Valley and Hollywood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    No high speed train for Cali...


    http://www.greenism.com/trump-just-k...ilway-project/

    Maybe they can use the money they would have spent on fixing up that dam, instead.
    Is this the same rail project/contract awarded to Feinstein's husband's construction firm?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Yeah good luck with that, Drumpf. Actually, Vicente Fox is right- unless he becomes a U.S. resident and starts paying taxes.

    And how many more billions do undocumented families pour into the economy and social security funds? Does the heritage foundation cover that, or does that information run counter to their agenda?
    Maybe if the undocumented workers are all high wage earners they might pay enough taxes and social security to offset their drain. Most of the immigrates I work with that are highly educated and earn descent money are legal as far as I know. I am not sure how a high wage earner that is illegal can get a high paying job in the U.S. Drug dealers might be an exception. California, for example, could put a heathy down payment on that high speed rail if they weren't paying benefits to illegal immigrates:

    A new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) finds that providing education, health care, law enforcement, and social and government services to illegal aliens and their dependents costs Californians $25.3 billion per year according to FAIR's report The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on California Taxpayers. The state's 3 million illegal aliens and their 1.1 million U.S.–born children cost the average California household -- headed by a U.S. citizen – $2,370 annually.

    Among the report's key findings:


    - Funding the K-12 education for children who are themselves illegal aliens and for the citizen children of illegal aliens accounted for the largest share of the cost to taxpayers at $14.4 billion. These services included standard public school educations and supplemental English language instruction. Despite federal funding, the average per pupil expenditure is $10,450 each year.
    - Justice and law enforcement costs – policing, court and incarceration – associated with illegal aliens soared to more than $4.4 billion.
    - Medical services cost taxpayers approximately $4 billion, including $388 million associated with 68,000 births to illegal alien mothers.
    - Public assistance – low-cost meal programs, free immunizations, etc. – are available to residents regardless of legal status. The $792 million price tag for these services is borne by California taxpayers.
    [...]
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...263892991.html

    Of course, this study is most likely flawed like all the rest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Yes, why improve vital infrastructure in the country's most important state when you can spend billions on a fucking wall, hire 10,000 new ICE agents, and funnel billions more into new private detention facilities when immigration flow from Mexico is at net zero right now?
    What's so vital about high speed rail? It's not an either/or decision. There are plenty of alternative ways for people to get from LA to SF (air, bus, drive themselves). If California wants high speed rail, let it pay for it.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    What's so vital about high speed rail? It's not an either/or decision. There are plenty of alternative ways for people to get from LA to SF (air, bus, drive themselves). If California wants high speed rail, let it pay for it.
    All infrastructure. The halt on funds wasn't specifically for the rail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    All infrastructure. The halt on funds wasn't specifically for the rail.
    Is Harry's high speed rail to Vegas part of the plan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    All infrastructure. The halt on funds wasn't specifically for the rail.
    That article only referenced electrification of rail lines in SF. It's still not either/or. Those moneys are coming out of the Transportation Dept. Maybe Idaho roads are benefiting at the expense of California's lack of electrified rail in SF.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    All infrastructure. The halt on funds wasn't specifically for the rail.
    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    That article only referenced electrification of rail lines in SF. It's still not either/or. Those moneys are coming out of the Transportation Dept. Maybe Idaho roads are benefiting at the expense of California's lack of electrified rail in SF.
    The delayed funding, as i understand, was from the DOT for use by CalTrain to convert the commuter line between San Jose and SF from diesel to Electric locomotives. This line would then be used as the northern most segment of the high speed train system that would stretch from SF to LA, but it is a separate project. It is a line that already exists and is used by many thousands daily albeit with diesel locomotives. The rest of the high speed train line to LA, which is being estimated to cost many billions of both state and federal dollars and has not yet been funded, is not affected by this funding delay.

    Btw, where does Ted find these articles? That thing was poorly written and needed to be edited.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  12. #42
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    The delayed funding, as i understand, was from the DOT for use by CalTrain to convert the commuter line between San Jose and SF from diesel to Electric locomotives. This line would then be used as the northern most segment of the high speed train system that would stretch from SF to LA, but it is a separate project. It is a line that already exists and is used by many thousands daily albeit with diesel locomotives. The rest of the high speed train line to LA, which is being estimated to cost many billions of both state and federal dollars and has not yet been funded, is not affected by this funding delay.

    Btw, where does Ted find these articles? That thing was poorly written and needed to be edited.
    Whew, there is still hope for high speed rail between LA and SF. Glory glory hallelujah!!!!

    Ted just finds em and posts em. It's up to us to judge the merits.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Maybe if the undocumented workers are all high wage earners they might pay enough taxes and social security to offset their drain. Most of the immigrates I work with that are highly educated and earn descent money are legal as far as I know. I am not sure how a high wage earner that is illegal can get a high paying job in the U.S. Drug dealers might be an exception. California, for example, could put a heathy down payment on that high speed rail if they weren't paying benefits to illegal immigrates:
    Now you're quoting FAIR? Of course it's flawed- what- no David Duke quote on the subject? Taxes aside, undocumented workers in CA contribute $130 billion annually (10%) to California's GDP, by the way. I'm sure FAIR mentioned that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Now you're quoting FAIR? Of course it's flawed- what- no David Duke quote on the subject? Taxes aside, undocumented workers in CA contribute $130 billion annually (10%) to California's GDP, by the way. I'm sure FAIR mentioned that?
    In that case, California should pull out the wall and let all the undocumented workers in... The rest of the country could just give illegal immigrates one-way tickets to California. The immigration problem is solved! Thanks Commando! You are a genius.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Now you're quoting FAIR? Of course it's flawed- what- no David Duke quote on the subject? Taxes aside, undocumented workers in CA contribute $130 billion annually (10%) to California's GDP, by the way. I'm sure FAIR mentioned that?
    Could you give me a reference. Some of my golfing buddies over dinner started talking about the subject. One brought up the huge number of $$ being spent on undocumenteds for schooling, food stamps, incarcerration (SP) etc. in Calif. I argued saying they pay more in than they take out. Later I realized I was remembering what PAC said about Calif. in relation to the Federal government. I didn't correct myself though.

    Have any studies been done to see what the net effect is. Not the effect of immigration including legal and illegal, but the effect when you just count undocumenteds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by byu71 View Post
    Could you give me a reference. Some of my golfing buddies over dinner started talking about the subject. One brought up the huge number of $$ being spent on undocumenteds for schooling, food stamps, incarcerration (SP) etc. in Calif. I argued saying they pay more in than they take out. Later I realized I was remembering what PAC said about Calif. in relation to the Federal government. I didn't correct myself though.

    Have any studies been done to see what the net effect is. Not the effect of immigration including legal and illegal, but the effect when you just count undocumenteds?
    I’m not sure if you’re kidding here, or simply have better things to do than a Google search which will reveal that this issue has been the subject of LOTS of study and analysis. Sifting through the polemics from commentators on both sides (as if there were only two) of the immigration issue has led me to the following conclusions:

    On balance, illegal immigrants are a net positive to the economy, but certainly not without some clear negatives. The negatives include driving down wages, since undocumenteds will perform necessary but very undesirable jobs for chump change (see anecdote at the end of this yawner); without immigrant labor (legal and illegal), wages on the low end of the pay scale would absolutely rise. That’s but one example of a result that is both positive (cheaper goods and services for the consumer) and negative (lower pay for laborers). One can read other commentaries that report how much illegals drain from government coffers for health care, law enforcement, etc., but they generally overlook that illegal immigrants are less likely than their legal counterparts to obtain/require such governmental attention, since they try to avoid governmental interaction.

    One of the things that bothers me most about Trump is his constant demonization of anything or anyone he perceives as an enemy. The vast majority of undocumented workers in this country are good, hard-working people, not “bad hombres.” Deporting all of them (thankfully, an impossible task), would unquestionably have a very serious negative impact on the economy, not to mention the cruel effect of disrupting lives and separating families.

    My anecdote: my law partner represents nearly all of the independent waste management (okay, garbage) companies in Northern California. Pretty much every garbage company is required to run a recycling facility that typically consists of long conveyor belts onto which all the recycling crap we throw out every week is dumped. The debris, much of which is pretty disgusting, moves along the conveyor belt while dozens of workers sort through the passing trash and put it in the appropriate receptacle (paper, plastic, boogers, etc.) all day long. Great job, right? And for this they might get the princely sum of $10/hour. As long as they provide an SS number, local laws prevent the employer from inquiring whether they’re undocumented, but most of them are. We know this because after anywhere from 2-5 months, the employer gets a notice from the feds that the SS number to which the worker’s pay was being allocated (and taxed) isn’t correct and a proper one needs to be provided. When the worker is alerted to this requirement, he/she never shows up for work the following day, presumably getting a job at another similarly enjoyable position elsewhere, and the taxes that were paid on the worker’s behalf go into the pot to pay your and my SS benefits, not hers or his. Get rid of all of these people and your garbage bill will jump, as will the cost of a lot of other goods and services.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    My anecdote: my law partner represents nearly all of the independent waste management (okay, garbage) companies in Northern California. Pretty much every garbage company is required to run a recycling facility that typically consists of long conveyor belts onto which all the recycling crap we throw out every week is dumped. The debris, much of which is pretty disgusting, moves along the conveyor belt while dozens of workers sort through the passing trash and put it in the appropriate receptacle (paper, plastic, boogers, etc.) all day long. Great job, right? And for this they might get the princely sum of $10/hour. As long as they provide an SS number, local laws prevent the employer from inquiring whether they’re undocumented, but most of them are. We know this because after anywhere from 2-5 months, the employer gets a notice from the feds that the SS number to which the worker’s pay was being allocated (and taxed) isn’t correct and a proper one needs to be provided. When the worker is alerted to this requirement, he/she never shows up for work the following day, presumably getting a job at another similarly enjoyable position elsewhere, and the taxes that were paid on the worker’s behalf go into the pot to pay your and my SS benefits, not hers or his. Get rid of all of these people and your garbage bill will jump, as will the cost of a lot of other goods and services.
    It seems the right thing to do here is to charge all you dummies that are mixing your recyclables with your trash more money. What the hell is wrong with you people? It is not that hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    It seems the right thing to do here is to charge all you dummies that are mixing your recyclables with your trash more money. What the hell is wrong with you people? It is not that hard.
    In my neighborhood we are required, at threat of fine, to separate our trash into three separate containers. Green for yard and other green waste, blue for suitable plastic and glass recyclables, and brown for run of the mill trash. Every Wednesday night I dutifully leave our three bins, each containing only appropriate items, on the curb. And each Thursday morning before dawn two trucks come by. One takes the green waste. The other takes the brown bin and then the blue bin, picks them up with the same hydraulic arm and dumps them into the same bin on the truck. Really. I've watched it many times. So don't blame us, blame the trash companies.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    In my neighborhood we are required, at threat of fine, to separate our trash into three separate containers. Green for yard and other green waste, blue for suitable plastic and glass recyclables, and brown for run of the mill trash. Every Wednesday night I dutifully leave our three bins, each containing only appropriate items, on the curb. And each Thursday morning before dawn two trucks come by. One takes the green waste. The other takes the brown bin and then the blue bin, picks them up with the same hydraulic arm and dumps them into the same bin on the truck. Really. I've watched it many times. So don't blame us, blame the trash companies.
    In Texas we have the same sort of thing... We have a big blue trash can for recyclables: plastics, glass, paper, etc. We have a big gray trash can for garbage. These are all set out in our back alley for the trash and recycle guys to pick up (different trucks). Now for the yard and green waste we just pile that out front on the first Thursday of the month and this crane-like thing with a giant claw picks it up and throws it in the back of a large truck. It gets turned into mulch which they sell back to us. So it seems California is creating artificial need for undocumented workers... what a bunch of dummies.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    In Texas we have the same sort of thing... We have a big blue trash can for recyclables: plastics, glass, paper, etc. We have a big gray trash can for garbage. These are all set out in our back alley for the trash and recycle guys to pick up (different trucks). Now for the yard and green waste we just pile that out front on the first Thursday of the month and this crane-like thing with a giant claw picks it up and throws it in the back of a large truck. It gets turned into mulch which they sell back to us. So it seems California is creating artificial need for undocumented workers... what a bunch of dummies.
    And in Texas are plastics, glass and paper, etc. all treated the same way (and together) in the recycling process? Because we're apparently not nearly as sharp as you Texans, those elements of the recycling bin (and yes, we have the same bins you do) need to be sorted through and separated. How is this done in Texas, if not by unskilled, low paid labor? I'm also embarrassed to report that occasionally we dumb Californians put things in the wrong bin, which requires manual extraction. Apparently Texans have never committed such errors.

    Edit: After posting, intrigued by the possibility that Texas had solved the need for low paid, unskilled workers in recycling, I Googled images for Texas recycling facilities. The first pic that popped up was of a group of PhDs no doubt pulling down welder's money at a Texas MRF:

    Last edited by PaloAltoCougar; 02-22-2017 at 05:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    In that case, California should pull out the wall and let all the undocumented workers in... The rest of the country could just give illegal immigrates one-way tickets to California. The immigration problem is solved! Thanks Commando! You are a genius.
    Why? I don't follow your logic. Maybe Breitbart has an article that would elucidate your point? By the way, the word is 'immigrant.' With an 'n.'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
    Why? I don't follow your logic. Maybe Breitbart has an article that would elucidate your point? By the way, the word is 'immigrant.' With an 'n.'
    immigrate is sort of an amusing malaprop. ungrateful immigrants, legal or otherwise, are immigrates.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Well, I knew this was inevitable. But I thought they would pour tens of billions more down the sinkhole before they pulled the plug. Gavin Newsom announced that he is abandoning the full scale Sac-SF and SF-LA HSR plan. Instead, they are going to complete the heavily trafficked Merced to Bakersfield corridor. GN saw the writing on the wall w/r/t to ballooning capital costs; maybe his advisors should have given him a basic economics lesson in sunk costs as well. If revenue/operating costs were going to be a challenge on the SF-LA route, I can't wait to see what the lucrative Merced to Bakersfield route will bring.

    I won't bore everyone with a repost of my thoughts in general on HSR in America. If anyone wants a refresher, the first page of this thread is filled with conflicted feelings of a man who makes his living delivering projects to passenger rail clients, but can't get on board with a national HSR system. Summary is I think HSR is amazing and I would love to work on designing a new system, but I think it's cost-effectiveness is very limited in the USA and public investment should be limited to specific corridors where HSR can ease the burden on other travel modes. I think HSR will arrive here eventually. The feds have made significant investment in the northeast corridor to get the Acela up to 150 mph where geometry allows. Brightline (a private entity) will have 125 mph passenger service to Orlando in the next 3 years. They also acquired the Los AngelesVictorville to Las Vegas high speed rail venture and appear to be serious about finally getting that done. It would be nice to get some 200 mph trains in the heaviest corridors, but as California's misadventure has proved that will take better planning and very large public investment.

    As a side note, this makes AOC's Green New Deal appear even more ridiculous. Abandoning air travel for HSR in ten years was laughable on its face because it is impossible, but now we have a real life failure example in the richest state in the union that also had the most political will to build a HSR network.

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...d-13610732.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Well, I knew this was inevitable. But I thought they would pour tens of billions more down the sinkhole before they pulled the plug. Gavin Newsom announced that he is abandoning the full scale Sac-SF and SF-LA HSR plan. Instead, they are going to complete the heavily trafficked Merced to Bakersfield corridor. GN saw the writing on the wall w/r/t to ballooning capital costs; maybe his advisors should have given him a basic economics lesson in sunk costs as well. If revenue/operating costs were going to be a challenge on the SF-LA route, I can't wait to see what the lucrative Merced to Bakersfield route will bring.

    I won't bore everyone with a repost of my thoughts in general on HSR in America. If anyone wants a refresher, the first page of this thread is filled with conflicted feelings of a man who makes his living delivering projects to passenger rail clients, but can't get on board with a national HSR system. Summary is I think HSR is amazing and I would love to work on designing a new system, but I think it's cost-effectiveness is very limited in the USA and public investment should be limited to specific corridors where HSR can ease the burden on other travel modes. I think HSR will arrive here eventually. The feds have made significant investment in the northeast corridor to get the Acela up to 150 mph where geometry allows. Brightline (a private entity) will have 125 mph passenger service to Orlando in the next 3 years. They also acquired the Los AngelesVictorville to Las Vegas high speed rail venture and appear to be serious about finally getting that done. It would be nice to get some 200 mph trains in the heaviest corridors, but as California's misadventure has proved that will take better planning and very large public investment.

    As a side note, this makes AOC's Green New Deal appear even more ridiculous. Abandoning air travel for HSR in ten years was laughable on its face because it is impossible, but now we have a real life failure example in the richest state in the union that also had the most political will to build a HSR network.

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...d-13610732.php
    It is a joke that they are going to finish the Merced to Bakersfield portion. Just abandon it altogether. They have wasted so much money.

  25. #55
    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    I am so glad we have tried to cut our losses. This HSR project has been a boondoggle from the beginning.The environmental regulations and associated costs in CA need to change if something like this is to be successful.

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