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  • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
    And the Dems will counter with "vote early and vote often - you don't even have to be a citizen or alive!"

    It's easy to throw crap at the wall like that, Frank.

    I know that it's all put under the label of "voter suppression" - but I don't get why people are so upset about requiring that people have some ID and prove who they are in order to vote. Don't get me wrong - I want EVERYONE to vote who has the right to vote. But - we require that someone prove their age and that they're entitled to purchase freaking cigarettes before they do so - but anyone can show up and just tell you who they are without any ID in order to pick the leaders of our country? That seems crazy to me.
    Except Eddie, it’s not throwing crap at the wall, it’s genuine issues that happen. Look no further than the recent North Carolina race. In Montana there were internal GOP email discouraging mail in ballots because it help out Native American voters who tend to be liberal.

    In the Southern states such as Georgia and NC there are loads more polling in conservative white areas than democratic learning minority areas, and that has been a response to SCOTUS mind-boggling ruling WUAP referred to.



    How often have there been instances of people showing up early and often? That sounds like bullshit being flung at a wall.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
      So, imagine that you've lived in the same place for six decades. You're on a fixed income. Everyone in your small town knows you. You walked to work before you retired (the factory closed down). You voted at the same (and only precinct) in your town by walking there, to the main church in town, usually. You don't have a car and no one around you has a car. Life is rural. Now, you are told you need a state ID in order to vote. You, Eddie, say no problem. But, there aren't taxis where you live and it's a 20-mile-each-way round-trip to go wait for an hour or two just to get a state ID. https://goo.gl/maps/VD4gppPEk52T7rg36

      You might just decide that it's not worth the hassle. That's how you suppress the votes of the poor. Those who cannot really afford time off of work or the cost to get to the place where IDs are issued. That's far more likely to happen than someone influencing an election by voting without ID more than once. That'd have to be massively coordinated. It's easier to swing an election by intimidating voters into NOT voting, or by gerrymandering, or by getting rid of or moving precincts in areas that aren't largely GOP so that it's harder to vote, or by forcing college students to get their vehicles registered where they study ($$$), or by RIGGING the machines than by getting a bunch of people to vote in multiple places. Or you could dabble in voter caging.

      It's a manufactured "problem" about ID in the modern era that is just absolutely stupid. It's crazy to me that more people can't see that voter intimidation is anti-democratic and sure as hell unAmerican. Show ID? Pshaw. Why not have to have a fingerprint and an iris scan and a REAL ID so we'll KNOW FOR SURE that no one is cheating the election. Does the Republic teeter on such issues?

      Whenever FOX News is the main source of rhetoric and buzz about an issue, it's time to pause and reflect. The moment the SCOTUS ended the injunction against the Southern states about voting rights, the GOP already had legislation at the ready to start this nonsense, since it had tried numerous times in the past....New Jersey in 1982 saw armed off-duty officers patrolling precincts' vicinities wearing arm bands of some kind of "Ballot Security Task Force." Brian Kemp even went on record talking about how Democrats registering "all these minority voters" was how they would win elections, and then he used his office as Secretary of State in Georgia to do all of the above, and he barely won the governor's race, a race that he was in charge of....he said it more than once: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBVp...ture=emb_title
      Well said.

      Anyone who has studied how the black vote was systematically suppressed in the south for so long should recoil at this whole voter ID movement.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
        You think Sanders is more pro Russia than Trump? That’s a dumb take man. I’m not talking about the USSR, I’m considering Putin’s Russia.
        So you'd prefer a guy that admires Stalin over a guy that admires Putin? Talk about dumb takes.
        Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

        "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • I'm sure that there are those who would like to suppress votes and voters who don't think like them. I've seen enough in politics that I don't put that past anyone.

          I also don't see how we, as a country, can't come up with a workaround to make sure that everyone who needs it has ID.

          While Wuap's story is nice - and is reflective of a lot of rural life as far as people having lived together and know who is who forever - there is also the reality that people move around now more than they ever have before. While that life still exists for many - it's not a reflection of everyone.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by falafel View Post
            So you'd prefer a guy that admires Stalin over a guy that admires Putin? Talk about dumb takes.
            I am sure Stalin did a lot of great things too.
            "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
            "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
            "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
              I am sure Stalin did a lot of great things too.
              He did beat Hitler.
              τὸν ἥλιον ἀνατέλλοντα πλείονες ἢ δυόμενον προσκυνοῦσιν

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Eddie View Post
                I'm sure that there are those who would like to suppress votes and voters who don't think like them. I've seen enough in politics that I don't put that past anyone.

                I also don't see how we, as a country, can't come up with a workaround to make sure that everyone who needs it has ID.

                While Wuap's story is nice - and is reflective of a lot of rural life as far as people having lived together and know who is who forever - there is also the reality that people move around now more than they ever have before. While that life still exists for many - it's not a reflection of everyone.
                I'd say the onus is on YOU to prove why we need to come up with a workaround in the first place. Where is this great compelling need for voter ID, pray tell. How is democracy being undermined so much that demonstrably suppressive acts are committed in the name of "ballot security"?
                "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                  I'd say the onus is on YOU to prove why we need to come up with a workaround in the first place. Where is this great compelling need for voter ID, pray tell. How is democracy being undermined so much that demonstrably suppressive acts are committed in the name of "ballot security"?
                  History is replete with examples where lack of ballot security affected the democratic process. The possibility certainly exists.
                  Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                  For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                  Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                    Bernie trying to lose the Florida vote.



                    Ha!
                    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                      History is replete with examples where lack of ballot security affected the democratic process. The possibility certainly exists.
                      Sure, it exists, but I guess that line of argument is close enough for government work. These laws aren't about "ballot security" but merely seek to prevent in-person voter fraud via voter impersonation. You show up and claim to be someone else and vote in their stead. Voter impersonation is not a problem; you can't find a time in the last 30 years when it affected the democratic process because it's just not practical to get election-swaying numbers of voters to go vote outside their precincts for whom you tell them to vote. I really cannot understand why people see this as anything other than <redacted> unAmerican bullshit. If the Rights of Man are inalienable, then why should anyone have to prove their free exercise thereof?
                      "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by wuapinmon View Post
                        Sure, it exists, but I guess that line of argument is close enough for government work. These laws aren't about "ballot security" but merely seek to prevent in-person voter fraud via voter impersonation. You show up and claim to be someone else and vote in their stead. Voter impersonation is not a problem; you can't find a time in the last 30 years when it affected the democratic process because it's just not practical to get election-swaying numbers of voters to go vote outside their precincts for whom you tell them to vote. I really cannot understand why people see this as anything other than <redacted> unAmerican bullshit. If the Rights of Man are inalienable, then why should anyone have to prove their free exercise thereof?
                        This was in North Carolina and involved a Republican candidate dealing in absentee ballots.

                        Election Fraud in North Carolina Leads to New Charges for Republican Operative

                        What is an election-swaying number? Could be 2, could be 10, could be 100.

                        I don't have a big problem with some kind of voter ID requirement. Surely that ID can provide other benefits than just allowing one to vote. Could be a nice project to help those disenfranchised to get IDs and an avenue to voting, among other things.
                        Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

                        For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

                        Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by falafel View Post
                          So you'd prefer a guy that admires Stalin over a guy that admires Putin? Talk about dumb takes.
                          You're fucking ridiculous, If you don't understand how Trump is currently in Putin's back pocket and why that's a national security concern. Bernie is not a Stalinist. Bernie is not beholden to Putin.
                          Trump is has actively destabilized and undermined our security and standing in the world, including our security services and diplomatic soft power.
                          Last edited by frank ryan; 02-24-2020, 10:08 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                            This is only going to get worse for Bernie. The Washington Post just ran an article about all the quotes and video of his past praise of the Sandanistas, Castros, and the Soviet Union. In the 70s in his late 30s he was advocating for nationalization of nearly every major industry. He was praising the Soviet Union for doing so many things better than america two years before the wall fell. If he has pivoted away from these hard line views, he has never explained why or if he now believes in any semblance of a free market.

                            Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                            You're fucking ridiculous. If you don't understand how Trump is currently in Putin's back pocket and why that's a national security concern. Bernie is not a Stalinist.
                            But he is a Marxist. At least if you go by his public statements for the vast majority of his life. Disagree?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                              This was in North Carolina and involved a Republican candidate dealing in absentee ballots.

                              Election Fraud in North Carolina Leads to New Charges for Republican Operative

                              What is an election-swaying number? Could be 2, could be 10, could be 100.

                              I don't have a big problem with some kind of voter ID requirement. Surely that ID can provide other benefits than just allowing one to vote. Could be a nice project to help those disenfranchised to get IDs and an avenue to voting, among other things.
                              The guy in Carolina threw away Democratic ballots. That doesn't speak to the voter ID issue.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by myboynoah View Post
                                This was in North Carolina and involved a Republican candidate dealing in absentee ballots.

                                Election Fraud in North Carolina Leads to New Charges for Republican Operative

                                What is an election-swaying number? Could be 2, could be 10, could be 100.

                                I don't have a big problem with some kind of voter ID requirement. Surely that ID can provide other benefits than just allowing one to vote. Could be a nice project to help those disenfranchised to get IDs and an avenue to voting, among other things.
                                That case has jack shit to do with voter impersonation laws.
                                "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

                                Comment

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