The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

[Omaha 680]

Also, I love the Friedman quote on the morality between capitalism and politics. Pocahontas is no more moral than your average Wall Street banker. In fact, her desire for power is probably less moral than a bankers desire for money. I work with Wall Street bankers and I think it would shock some people as to how moral they really are.

To clarify that wasnt a direct quote. It was what I remember from an interview of him I watched a while back. I should look it up and quote him directly because I'm sure he says it better than I remember it.

[Northwestcoug]

I’m not 100% certain, but I’m pretty sure Milton Friedman gave the commencement address at my graduation. At least it was an old guy who looked like him. All you fanbois of him should know, the address was booooring.

[PaloAltoCougar]

For obvious reasons, the wealth tax would be very difficult to implement and onerous to apply. It assumes that the Uber wealthy have their wealth in liquid assets that can easily converted to cash and paid to the government. Take for instance Jeff Bezos, I assume the majority of his wealth is in Amazon stock. It is what makes him wealthy, but holding that stock allows him certain rights as a large shareholder and also is part of why amazon is worth so much. If he has to start selling off 2% every year to pay this tax, his ownership percentage diminished and his influence on the company also diminishes, which could hurt the company as a whole. Also, large landowners aren’t sitting around on piles of cash. They have illiquid assets that they’d prefer not to divest to pay a tax. That’s why I think the estate tax is much better as it happens at the end of life instead of forcing divestitures during life.

Also, I love the Friedman quote on the morality between capitalism and politics. Pocahontas is no more moral than your average Wall Street banker. In fact, her desire for power is probably less moral than a bankers desire for money. I work with Wall Street bankers and I think it would shock some people as to how moral they really are.

Yes, implementing a wealth tax would be VERY complicated and fraught with problems. The Bezos example is one. How about those whose wealth is tied up in assets other than freely tradable securities? How will those (antiques, art, unimproved real estate, etc.) be valued? Ask a dozen appraisers what an illiquid asset is worth and you'll get a dozen, often very different, examples. As with most attempts at tax reform, this would be a relief act for lawyers and accountants.

[myboynoah]

Yes, implementing a wealth tax would be VERY complicated and fraught with problems. The Bezos example is one. How about those whose wealth is tied up in assets other than freely tradable securities? How will those (antiques, art, unimproved real estate, etc.) be valued? Ask a dozen appraisers what an illiquid asset is worth and you'll get a dozen, often very different, examples. As with most attempts at tax reform, this would be a relief act for lawyers and accountants.

Accountants. Pffffft.

[Pelado]

Yes, implementing a wealth tax would be VERY complicated and fraught with problems. The Bezos example is one. How about those whose wealth is tied up in assets other than freely tradable securities? How will those (antiques, art, unimproved real estate, etc.) be valued? Ask a dozen appraisers what an illiquid asset is worth and you'll get a dozen, often very different, examples. As with most attempts at tax reform, this would be a relief act for lawyers and accountants.

Let's do it!

Accountants. Pffffft.

[wapiti]

For obvious reasons, the wealth tax would be very difficult to implement and onerous to apply. It assumes that the Uber wealthy have their wealth in liquid assets that can easily converted to cash and paid to the government. Take for instance Jeff Bezos, I assume the majority of his wealth is in Amazon stock. It is what makes him wealthy, but holding that stock allows him certain rights as a large shareholder and also is part of why amazon is worth so much. If he has to start selling off 2% every year to pay this tax, his ownership percentage diminished and his influence on the company also diminishes, which could hurt the company as a whole. Also, large landowners aren’t sitting around on piles of cash. They have illiquid assets that they’d prefer not to divest to pay a tax. That’s why I think the estate tax is much better as it happens at the end of life instead of forcing divestitures during life.

Also, I love the Friedman quote on the morality between capitalism and politics. Pocahontas is no more moral than your average Wall Street banker. In fact, her desire for power is probably less moral than a bankers desire for money. I work with Wall Street bankers and I think it would shock some people as to how moral they really are.

In both the case of Bezos and "large land owners" I don't see either of those things as necessarily a problem. Is diminishing Amazon's power in the marketplace a problem? How about forcing the Wilkes brothers to sell some of the Idaho backcountry that they own for no reason other than that they can?

https://boisedev.com/news/2019/06/24...-billionaires/

Your argument works at lower levels of wealth. Small businesses and farms shouldn't have to sell to satisfy a wealth tax. Maybe $50MM is too low. But when we're talking tens of billions and hundreds of billions, it's OK to force some hard decisions on them.

[old_gregg]

it's OK to force some hard decisions on them.

why

[old_gregg]

Is diminishing Amazon's power in the marketplace a problem?

this is crazy of course that’s a problem. not just for bezos but for millions of stakeholders

How about forcing the Wilkes brothers to sell some of the Idaho backcountry that they own for no reason other than that they can?

because that’s a good enough reason

[Moliere]

In both the case of Bezos and "large land owners" I don't see either of those things as necessarily a problem. Is diminishing Amazon's power in the marketplace a problem? How about forcing the Wilkes brothers to sell some of the Idaho backcountry that they own for no reason other than that they can?

https://boisedev.com/news/2019/06/24...-billionaires/

Your argument works at lower levels of wealth. Small businesses and farms shouldn't have to sell to satisfy a wealth tax. Maybe $50MM is too low. But when we're talking tens of billions and hundreds of billions, it's OK to force some hard decisions on them.

For Bezos, I was making the point that he's not holding Amazon stock because it's worth a lot of money. It's worth a lot of money because he's holding a lot of Amazon stock.

Your Wilkes brothers example is a good example of the impossibility of applying a tax like this. Who gets to value the Idaho backcountry land? That's not an easy thing to do even when a transaction is happening.

[wapiti]

Your Wilkes brothers example is a good example of the impossibility of applying a tax like this. Who gets to value the Idaho backcountry land? That's not an easy thing to do even when a transaction is happening.

Easy, they just bought it. So there's the value.

[wapiti]

For Bezos, I was making the point that he's not holding Amazon stock because it's worth a lot of money. It's worth a lot of money because he's holding a lot of Amazon stock.

I think at this point Amazon is a beast that goes well beyond the value of having Bezos at the helm. The business model is set. The execution model is set. It really can't be stopped until Uncle Sam steps in.

[SCcoug]

I think at this point Eastman Kodak Company is a beast that goes well beyond the value of having Eastman at the helm. The business model is set. The execution model is set. It really can't be stopped until Uncle Sam steps in.

I think at this point Sears Roebuck & Company is a beast that goes well beyond the value of having Sears at the helm. The business model is set. The execution model is set. It really can't be stopped until Uncle Sam steps in.

And on and on.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, let's force wealthy Americans to turn over a portion of their private property to the government each year. Or sell it to the Chinese and turn over the cash. What could go wrong?

This is an incredibly stupid idea.

[Pelado]

Yes, let's force wealthy Americans to turn over a portion of their private property to the government each year. Or sell it to the Chinese and turn over the cash. What could go wrong?

This is an incredibly stupid idea.

That's exactly what we would expect from someone making welder money.

We need this new tax to ensure full employment for accountants.

P.S. I love that the suggested word on my phone after typing "welder" was "money".

[wapiti]

I think at this point Eastman Kodak Company is a beast that goes well beyond the value of having Eastman at the helm. The business model is set. The execution model is set. It really can't be stopped until Uncle Sam steps in.

I think at this point Sears Roebuck & Company is a beast that goes well beyond the value of having Sears at the helm. The business model is set. The execution model is set. It really can't be stopped until Uncle Sam steps in.

And on and on.

Ha ha. Those comparisons are not close to what Amazon has become.