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Thread: The 2020 Presidential Election Primary Thread

  1. #1711
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    No, you are repeating a bunch of made-up shit.

    None of that supports what you said:

    She's more interested in bashing her own party and progressives than she taking republicans to task. There is no way she can expect party-wide support. She also got the label of republican shill for being friendly with people like Steven Bannon, who floated her name as potential Trump cabinet member.

    The altright and conspiracy circles like her. Altight and pro-Kremlin bot armies already astroturf for her. David Duke actively pressured his followers to raise money of her behalf. Tulsi is a strange candidate, but a straight up moderate she is not.


    She is just more interested in courting conversatives and moderates than she is progressives and acts puzzled when she doesn't wider support.
    She is popular in some of those circles because she is an isolationist. But bloody hell, that doesn't mean that she supports or courts white nationalists.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  2. #1712
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Gabbard responds to nonsense from the NYT.

    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  3. #1713

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    No, you are repeating a bunch of made-up shit.

    None of that supports what you said:



    She is popular in some of those circles because she is an isolationist. But bloody hell, that doesn't mean that she supports or courts white nationalists.
    It’s not made up shit. Going on Tucker Carlson all the time is certainly a way in which to court the hard right. Tulsi has made her targets the DNC and other democrats. Her criticizing Trump on Syria is welcomed and somewhat of a first.

  4. #1714

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Gabbard responds to nonsense from the NYT.

    She has been a god-damned Assange apologist. That charge is neither new or unfounded.

  5. #1715
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    She has been a god-damned Assange apologist. That charge is neither new or unfounded.
    Frank, show me some hard evidence that she is an Assad apologist. List of quotes, please.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  6. #1716
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    She is far too moderate to win a primary. Has little to do with media bias.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    For example, refer to the ravings of frank_ryan.
    Bump.
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  7. #1717
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    It’s not made up shit. Going on Tucker Carlson all the time is certainly a way in which to court the hard right. Tulsi has made her targets the DNC and other democrats. Her criticizing Trump on Syria is welcomed and somewhat of a first.
    The conclusions are made up. Just because David Duke chooses to say something nice about you does not mean that you support David Duke. Moreover, Tucker Carlson is conservative and an ideologue, but listening to him, or talking to him, does not mean that you are a white supremacist. Besides, IMO, we need more cross-over dialog, not less. And has it occurred to you that the reason she has attacked the DNC and 'progressives' is because they are spouting foolishness and promoting fools? Please remember that she is trying to win an election, so to beat Sanders and Harris and Warren and ilk she kind of needs to attack them.

    Her conduct as to Syria is harder to explain. It all goes back to a semi-secret fact-finding trip she took to Syria and her refusal to condemn Assad afterwards. The only poeple calling her an apologist, AFAIK, are people like Kamala Harris who was pantsed and spanked by Gabbard two debates ago. So let's not over do the whole Syria thing. ANd she is absolutely correct; the effort to cause regime change in Syria should not have involved deployment of troops but, once there, we should not have abandoned the kurds in such a spectacularly traitorous manner. Both of those things can be true, as the clip JL posted above explained.

    Here is an article about her and Syria, as I know you do love your links. https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabba...lained-1452141
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  8. #1718

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Frank, show me some hard evidence that she is an Assad apologist. List of quotes, please.
    probably referring to her TV appearances following the gas attacks in Syria where she said she wasn't sure Assad was behind it.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/07/polit...ntv/index.html

  9. #1719

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    The conclusions are made up. Just because David Duke chooses to say something nice about you does not mean that you support David Duke. Moreover, Tucker Carlson is conservative and an ideologue, but listening to him, or talking to him, does not mean that you are a white supremacist. Besides, IMO, we need more cross-over dialog, not less. And has it occurred to you that the reason she has attacked the DNC and 'progressives' is because they are spouting foolishness and promoting fools? Please remember that she is trying to win an election, so to beat Sanders and Harris and Warren and ilk she kind of needs to attack them.

    Her conduct as to Syria is harder to explain. It all goes back to a semi-secret fact-finding trip she took to Syria and her refusal to condemn Assad afterwards. The only poeple calling her an apologist, AFAIK, are people like Kamala Harris who was pantsed and spanked by Gabbard two debates ago. So let's not over do the whole Syria thing. ANd she is absolutely correct; the effort to cause regime change in Syria should not have involved deployment of troops but, once there, we should not have abandoned the kurds in such a spectacularly traitorous manner. Both of those things can be true, as the clip JL posted above explained.

    Here is an article about her and Syria, as I know you do love your links. https://www.newsweek.com/tulsi-gabba...lained-1452141
    She seems to say all the right things on her website now and has an explanation for her previous comments about Assad.

    This seems like a fair take that addresses some of the weird or unconventional aspects about her:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...didate/597226/

    That said, she has no shot at the nomination. Does she have other underlying motives for her improbable run for president? It's certainly possible.
    Last edited by BlueK; 10-17-2019 at 12:26 PM.

  10. #1720
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    probably referring to her TV appearances following the gas attacks in Syria where she said she wasn't sure Assad was behind it.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/07/polit...ntv/index.html
    Given our track record on claims about WMD in the middle east, should we crucify her for a little skepticism?

    Good lord, I am beginning to sound like Walter.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  11. #1721
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Given our track record on claims about WMD in the middle east, should we crucify her for a little skepticism?

    Good lord, I am beginning to sound like Walter.
    Check yo self!
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

    I would rather take a political risk in pursuit of peace, than to risk peace in pursuit of politics. --President Donald J. Trump

    Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump

    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  12. #1722
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueK View Post
    She seems to say all the right things on her website now and has an explanation for her previous comments about Assad.

    This seems like a fair take that addresses some of the weird or unconventional aspects about her:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...didate/597226/

    That said, she has no shot at the nomination. Does she have other underlying motives for her improbable run for president? It's certainly possible.
    I realize she has no shot at the nomination, which disappoints me. I am desperate to vote for someone other than Trump who doesn't want to undermine or destroy our economy and who is smarter than a box of rocks. Of all the people on the stage the other night, only she and Klobuchar seemed like reasonable, thinking adults who weren't so steeped in party propaganda that they couldn't think for themselves and who were not willing to say almost anything to win. Yet neither one has a chance. But if either was the nominee against Trump I would very gladly vote for her.

    I will also add that I like Yang, quite a bit, but in a "he seems like a nice and clever guy" way but not in a "he should be president" way. You think Trump gets rolled by Erdogan or Putin? Putting someone like Yang in a room with those guys would just be mean.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  13. #1723

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I realize she has no shot at the nomination, which disappoints me. I am desperate to vote for someone other than Trump who doesn't want to undermine or destroy our economy and who is smarter than a box of rocks. Of all the people on the stage the other night, only she and Klobuchar seemed like reasonable, thinking adults who weren't so steeped in party propaganda that they couldn't think for themselves and who were not willing to say almost anything to win. Yet neither one has a chance. But if either was the nominee against Trump I would very gladly vote for her.

    I will also add that I like Yang, quite a bit, but in a "he seems like a nice and clever guy" way but not in a "he should be president" way. You think Trump gets rolled by Erdogan or Putin? Putting someone like Yang in a room with those guys would just be mean.
    Agreed. Having someone who shares most of your views as well as someone who can do the job are two different things. That said, the current occupant of the White House is already terrible at his job.

  14. #1724
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I realize she has no shot at the nomination, which disappoints me. I am desperate to vote for someone other than Trump who doesn't want to undermine or destroy our economy and who is smarter than a box of rocks. Of all the people on the stage the other night, only she and Klobuchar seemed like reasonable, thinking adults who weren't so steeped in party propaganda that they couldn't think for themselves and who were not willing to say almost anything to win. Yet neither one has a chance. But if either was the nominee against Trump I would very gladly vote for her.

    I will also add that I like Yang, quite a bit, but in a "he seems like a nice and clever guy" way but not in a "he should be president" way. You think Trump gets rolled by Erdogan or Putin? Putting someone like Yang in a room with those guys would just be mean.
    My fifteen year old son and I were listening to an NPR interview with Andrew Yang. I was only kind of listening. My son said, "turn it off, I don't want him." I asked why, and he said, "Social credits?! Really? Does that sound like something you'd want?" What a great feeling when you hear your teenage kids reflect your own values.

    Next day (during my run) I was listing to a London Review of Books article about the irony that we all thought the Internet would break China's totalitarianism, but now it's deploying the Internet effectively to make the authoritarian grip more comprehensive and effective. The article talked about how China is imposing a regime of social credits and social demerits.

    (Sorry for the brags including the humble brags about running and listening to the London Review of Books.)
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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  15. #1725
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I realize she has no shot at the nomination, which disappoints me. I am desperate to vote for someone other than Trump who doesn't want to undermine or destroy our economy and who is smarter than a box of rocks. Of all the people on the stage the other night, only she and Klobuchar seemed like reasonable, thinking adults who weren't so steeped in party propaganda that they couldn't think for themselves and who were not willing to say almost anything to win. Yet neither one has a chance. But if either was the nominee against Trump I would very gladly vote for her.

    I will also add that I like Yang, quite a bit, but in a "he seems like a nice and clever guy" way but not in a "he should be president" way. You think Trump gets rolled by Erdogan or Putin? Putting someone like Yang in a room with those guys would just be mean.
    My fifteen year old son and I were listening to an NPR interview with Andrew Yang. I was only kind of listening. My son said, "turn it off, I don't want him." I asked why, and he said, "Social credits?! Really? Does that sound like something you'd want?" What a great feeling when you hear your teenage kids reflect your own values.

    Next day (during my run) I was listing to a London Review of Books article about the irony that we all thought the Internet would break China's totalitarianism, but now it's deploying the Internet effectively to make the authoritarian grip more comprehensive and effective. The article talked about how China is imposing a regime of social credits and social demerits.

    (Sorry for the brags including the humble brags about running and listening to the London Review of Books.)
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

  16. #1726
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    It's not humble when you post it twice.
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  17. #1727
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    It’s not made up shit. Going on Tucker Carlson all the time is certainly a way in which to court the hard right. Tulsi has made her targets the DNC and other democrats. Her criticizing Trump on Syria is welcomed and somewhat of a first.
    I am guessing that CNN (the DNC's tool) won't give her the time of day because the DNC doesn't like her... that is why she settles for FOX. You know like how CNN was feeding Hillary the debate questions and screwing over Bernie back in the 2016 cycle.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  18. #1728
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I am guessing that CNN (the DNC's tool) won't give her the time of day because the DNC doesn't like her... that is why she settles for FOX. You know like how CNN was feeding Hillary the debate questions and screwing over Bernie back in the 2016 cycle.
    Even though its coming from Ted, there's probably some truth to this. CNN has no interest in undermining the Democratic front-runners.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  19. #1729
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    My fifteen year old son and I were listening to an NPR interview with Andrew Yang. I was only kind of listening. My son said, "turn it off, I don't want him." I asked why, and he said, "Social credits?! Really? Does that sound like something you'd want?" What a great feeling when you hear your teenage kids reflect your own values.

    Next day (during my run) I was listing to a London Review of Books article about the irony that we all thought the Internet would break China's totalitarianism, but now it's deploying the Internet effectively to make the authoritarian grip more comprehensive and effective. The article talked about how China is imposing a regime of social credits and social demerits.

    (Sorry for the brags including the humble brags about running and listening to the London Review of Books.)
    Just to clarify, is your value that he has emulated disliking social credits or not listening to those with whom you disagree?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  20. #1730

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Even though its coming from Ted, there's probably some truth to this. CNN has no interest in undermining the Democratic front-runners.
    Dude, if it came from Ted, there's a lot of truth to it!

  21. #1731
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    Now that Warren is leaving Biden in the dust, Bernie needs to get creative. I am thinking he and Mayor Pete should team up:


    (LOL@Beto)

    Especially, given that Bernie seems to be the only Dem that might be able to beat Drumpf.



    Besides I want to see this bumper sticker:

    IMG_2559.jpg
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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  22. #1732
    Senior Member UVACoug's Avatar
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    Dems going full on conspiracy theory w/r/t Tulsi Gabbard. Even Hilary is jumping on the train now:


    https://twitter.com/kthomasdc/status...962234374?s=21

  23. #1733
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    Quote Originally Posted by UVACoug View Post
    Dems going full on conspiracy theory w/r/t Tulsi Gabbard. Even Hilary is jumping on the train now:


    https://twitter.com/kthomasdc/status...962234374?s=21
    Are you sure they are talking about Gabbard? My money is on Warren. She looks like a Rusky. Well, at least more than she looks like a native american.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  24. #1734
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    On how if Gabbard is not the Dems' pick they won't have a chance against Drumpf...

    Tulsi Gabbard: Canary in the Democratic Coal Mine
    The imminent demise of her presidential campaign portends disaster for her party.

    For a sense of how divorced the Democrats are from mainstream America, the collapse of Tulsi Gabbard’s presidential campaign is instructive. Gabbard is a liberal who supports banning so-called assault weapons, raising the minimum wage to $15, free college tuition, etc. But her positions on abortion and health care are relatively moderate. Moreover, she is circumspect about impeachment, the only responsible position for a sitting congresswoman, and supports withdrawing American troops from Syria. Thus, her poll numbers are tanking. This is good news for Republicans. If a liberal like Tulsi Gabbard is too moderate for today’s Democrats, they have no chance of beating Trump in 2020.

    By rejecting relatively rational liberals like Tulsi Gabbard, Democratic primary voters will, for all intents and purposes, limit their choices to three deeply flawed candidates: former Vice President Joe Biden, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren, and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. Even if it were possible to ignore the trainloads of baggage each of these three would bring to the general election — and the Trump campaign won’t allow the electorate to forget those liabilities — their policy proposals are too extreme. All three leading Democrats, for example, support federal funding of abortion. A recent McLaughlin & Associates poll of 1,000 likely general election voters nationwide found the following:

    55% of voters oppose using federal tax dollars to pay for abortions under Medicaid (40% strongly oppose). This includes opposition among 35% of Democratic voters and 57% of Independent voters. 57% of voters oppose taxpayer funding of experiments that use organs and other body parts from aborted babies (41% strongly oppose). This includes 61% opposition among women voters.
    [...]
    https://spectator.org/tulsi-gabbard-...tic-coal-mine/

    First, the title of this article is dumb because we all know the Dems don't like coal and coal miners. But I will withhold any further judgement of the content of this article until Frank has had a chance to chime in.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  25. #1735

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    Quote Originally Posted by UVACoug View Post
    Dems going full on conspiracy theory w/r/t Tulsi Gabbard. Even Hilary is jumping on the train now:


    https://twitter.com/kthomasdc/status...962234374?s=21

    People have been skeptical of Tulsi. This shit is not new.

  26. #1736

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    Funny how she's a star of the Fox hosts and other Republicans considering the GOP opposes every one of these issues she's sponsored or supported in the House:


    Legislation
    H.R.1 — For the People Act of 2019 to expand voter registration and voting access, makes Election Day a federal holiday, and limits removing voters from voter rolls.
    H.R.51 — Washington, D.C. Admission Act to provide for the admission of the State of Washington, D.C. into the Union.
    H.R.727 — Puerto Rico Statehood Admission Process Act to provide for a vote on Puerto Rico's admission into the Union as a state.
    H.R.712 — John Tanner Fairness and Independence in Redistricting Act to prevent gerrymandering
    H.R.540 — Presidential Tax Disclosure Act of 2017 to require the disclosure of the Federal income tax returns of the President.

  27. #1737

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    People have been skeptical of Tulsi. This shit is not new.
    Many people are saying...

  28. #1738
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    People have been skeptical of Tulsi. This shit is not new.
    It might not be new, but it is (still) stupid.

    Hilary and Trump are so much alike. Whereas Trump seems driven by an overwhelming need to be loved and admired, Hilary seems supremely confident of her superiority and so is unable to admit that any of her rejections have anything to do with her, they are instead a vast right wing, er, I mean, Russian, conspiracy and wouldn't you know they are doing it again. Trump wants to be loved and fears he isn't so keeps trying to show he deserves it. Hilary expects to be loved because she knows she deserves it and would get it if only we weren't all such stupid and unwitting dupes. I can't stand either of them.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  29. #1739
    Senior Member UVACoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    People have been skeptical of Tulsi. This shit is not new.
    Yep. Nothing new about the 2016 Democratic presidential nominee promoting conspiracy theories about a current contender for the 2020 nomination being a Russian plant. Just business as usual.

  30. #1740

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    More that Trumpists have nothing in common with Gabbard's stated positions:

    Legislation
    H.R. 3440 DREAM Act
    H.R. 532 Dreamer Information Protection Act, which prohibits using DACA hearings for deportation
    H.R. 496 Bridge Act, which codifies the DACA program
    H.R. 392: Tulsi co-sponsored the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, which would remove the existing per-country cap on employment-based green cards and ensure all immigrants are treated equally regardless of their country of origin.

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