Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 419

Thread: Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

  1. #61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    The problem with victim blaming, rape culture, and re-victimizing rape victims is not unique to byu. Byu is just illustrating a societal problem.

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
    I can understand why this is a legal and societal dilemma, but I have not idea why this is an academic dilemma.

  2. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Buhman is a great soldier for his church and school.
    Don't forget the nation as well. He's a Lieutenant Colonel commanding a battalion in the Utah National Guard.

    Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk

  3. #63
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Hartsville, South Carolina
    Posts
    28,260

    Default



    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  4. #64

    Default

    these staged interviews are creepy
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  5. #65
    Philosopher of Men Sleeping in EQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Outside the Matrix
    Posts
    3,515

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    these staged interviews are creepy
    Agreed.
    We all trust our own unorthodoxies.

  6. #66
    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Free State of Nickajack
    Posts
    4,412

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    these staged interviews are creepy
    Yes, but not as creepy as Carrie Jenkins.

  7. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    Yes, but not as creepy as Carrie Jenkins.
    LOL, I'd never seen Sister Jenkins before. Is there a store where you can be pastel those pink blazers? Kind of like a Mrs. Mac's?

  8. #68

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  9. #69

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  10. #70
    Outsider looking in Blueintheface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    West Jordan, UT
    Posts
    15,306

    Default

    Blackhawks...beer...BYU...Battlestar Galactica.
    "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

    "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

  11. #71

  12. #72

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  13. #73
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    The heart of the UC
    Posts
    46,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Just claim you were raped and everything is forgiven. What could possibly go wrong?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  14. #74

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  15. #75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/3817597-1...-abusers-wield

    Amnesty is the only option.

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
    Haha. Like the girl in the NYTimes article? Who admitted to doing LSD and engaging in consensual sex with her rapist before the actual rape occurred? I agree no reason for her to have any honor code repercussions.
    *Banned*

  16. #76

    Default

    Despite the national press attention, I doubt BYU will significantly alter the honor code's involvement in assault cases. If it does continue to be involved, giving amnesty is obviously a problem (though I think this is probably the best option). But how about something like 'conditional amnesty'? Say there is no referral to the honor code initially. But what if during the course of the Title IX or police investigations, if deception on the part of the accuser comes to light, then the honor code investigation kicks in?

    Look, I hated the honor code twenty years ago, and I still think it is an embarrassment. But since it isn't going anywhere, maybe this would be an acceptable compromise.

  17. #77

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Despite the national press attention, I doubt BYU will significantly alter the honor code's involvement in assault cases. If it does continue to be involved, giving amnesty is obviously a problem (though I think this is probably the best option). But how about something like 'conditional amnesty'? Say there is no referral to the honor code initially. But what if during the course of the Title IX or police investigations, if deception on the part of the accuser comes to light, then the honor code investigation kicks in?

    Look, I hated the honor code twenty years ago, and I still think it is an embarrassment. But since it isn't going anywhere, maybe this would be an acceptable compromise.
    The simple solution is to wait until the rape case is completed. However the honor code office sees HC violations as very time sensitive, heaven forbid they let someone get in a free semester or two when they could have possibly broken a rule.
    *Banned*

  18. #78

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  19. #79

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:28 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  20. #80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I think someone needs to learn something about consent. If a woman is high on LSD, she didn't just consent to sex. She was drugged and raped. If she had consensual sex with him prior to the drugging and raping, that doesn't equal consent.

    Thanks for illustrating a point that there is a lot of education that needs to be given about what constitutes consent.
    I think someone needs to learn something about research. Read the article. The woman said she had previously used LSD and had consensual sex with him, she said nothing of being high on LSD during the rape. Oh and she her self called it "consensual sex". Nice try though. I am so glad you are such an advocate for women. Your advocacy however is counter-productive, you act like without you they would have no voice, they need a man to make sure they are heard. Bravo Funk!!
    *Banned*

  21. #81
    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Free State of Nickajack
    Posts
    4,412

    Default

    The longer the clinging to the Honor Code goes on the more the institution is going to be marginalized and targeted. I honestly fear a day when a BYU diploma is not so different than a Bob Jones diploma in the eyes of prospective employers and admissions officers.

  22. #82

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:29 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  23. #83

    Default

    -----------------------

    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:29 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  24. #84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Just claim you were raped and everything is forgiven. What could possibly go wrong?
    "Brooke" in the NY Times article claims she was raped several months prior to the LSD usage and then was raped again. To be perfectly honest with you, I can buy it that perhaps she was raped after she took the LSD, but I discount the claim of rape from several months before. She's raped by the guy, but still apparently doesn't mind hanging out with him and taking LSD. It's not exactly a compelling case to lead off the article. While Funk is correct that taking the LSD doesn't mean she consented to sex and may have made her incapable of consenting, there's also the issue that the accused also likely took LSD and neither party has any clue as to what happened. Does she know if she consented? Does he have any idea?

    How do you convict someone under such circumstances? Not surprisingly, I didn't see any mention that "Brooke" went to the police. Also, the details are scant regarding the timing of the LSD usage, the sex/rape in question and when she told the school.

    Contrast that with the story from Madeleine McDonald, also featured in the story. She made the exceptionally unwise decision to go out with someone from Tinder. That, by itself, is not an honor code violation. But it was a one time date with the guy and she reported things immediately to the school. Nothing happened to her as far as the honor code, but it sounds like the University could have handled that one better.
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

  25. #85
    CS Institutional Memory Jarid in Cedar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Up on western high
    Posts
    12,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cougjunkie View Post
    The simple solution is to wait until the rape case is completed. However the honor code office sees HC violations as very time sensitive, heaven forbid they let someone get in a free semester or two when they could have possibly broken a rule.
    The easiest/best/simplest solutions are unfortunately never evoked. Let the criminal matter resolve itself before venturing forth. Pharisees gotta pharisee, I guess.
    "The first thing I learned upon becoming a head coach after fifteen years as an assistant was the enormous difference between making a suggestion and making a decision."

    "They talk about the economy this year. Hey, my hairline is in recession, my waistline is in inflation. Altogether, I'm in a depression."

    "I like to bike. I could beat Lance Armstrong, only because he couldn't pass me if he was behind me."

    -Rick Majerus

  26. #86
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    The heart of the UC
    Posts
    46,678

    Default

    One thing for sure about this issue is that the hyperbole has been off the charts. I guess it is a perfect storm for the hypersensitive social justice warrior movement that is all the rage.

    BYU is not going to completely drop the Honor Code. They will make some adjustments and some people won't be satisfied but life will go on and some other issue will take its place. This is a complex issue that deserves a measured, careful analysis. I am happy that Kevin Worthen is at the helm now as I think he has just the right temperament to deal with this in a productive way.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  27. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Color Me Badd Fan View Post
    "Brooke" in the NY Times article claims she was raped several months prior to the LSD usage and then was raped again. To be perfectly honest with you, I can buy it that perhaps she was raped after she took the LSD, but I discount the claim of rape from several months before. She's raped by the guy, but still apparently doesn't mind hanging out with him and taking LSD. It's not exactly a compelling case to lead off the article. While Funk is correct that taking the LSD doesn't mean she consented to sex and may have made her incapable of consenting, there's also the issue that the accused also likely took LSD and neither party has any clue as to what happened. Does she know if she consented? Does he have any idea?
    Unless, following the rape, he basically threatened to report her to the HC office unless she accompanied him.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/3817597-1...-abusers-wield

  28. #88

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:29 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  29. #89

    Default

    -----------------------
    Last edited by MartyFunkhouser; 09-13-2016 at 09:29 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  30. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    This issue really isn't that complex. If you insist on keeping the honor code, there are 2 approaches that you can take:

    1) Amnesty

    2) No Amnesty
    The conditional amnesty that NWC refers to is a balanced approach that I could support.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •