Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

[frank ryan]

On the one hand people shouldn't expect to divorce themselves from the consequences of their poor choices just because something horrible happened to them. On the other, can't we just decide that they've been punished enough for their poor choices by having something horrible happen to them that we don't need to kick them out of school? There's really no easy answer here, but I welcome the transparency.

Rape isn't a punishment or consequence it's a crime.

[Bo Diddley]

Semantics.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Semantics.

Hardly. Punishment is an understood penalty for violating a law or rule. Traffic tickets, misdemeanors, felonies, even the honor code have understood punishments if you are guilty of the offense.

What rule or law violation is rape considered an understandable or expected punishment?

[Bo Diddley]

Hardly. Punishment is an understood penalty for violating a law or rule. Traffic tickets, misdemeanors, felonies, even the honor code have understood punishments if you are guilty of the offense.

What rule or law violation is rape considered an understandable or expected punishment?

In the context that I used it, I'm suggesting that a negative consequence is a proxy to any formal punishment that might otherwise be handed out for breaking the honor code.

[Jarid in Cedar]

In the context that I used it, I'm suggesting that a negative consequence is a proxy to any formal punishment that might otherwise be handed out for breaking the honor code.

I see you changed the ending of your original post, which reflects more what you were wanting to say, but I would like some clarification.

You keep saying that we can't remove consequences from poor choices, to which I agree. However, I would like to have you explain what poor choices you consider have rape as an expected consequence.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Bo Diddley]

I haven't considered any scenarios where rape should be an expected consequence. But certainly the example of the lady who took drugs left her vulnerable. Poor choices like that can open the door to such awful outcomes.

[Maximus]

I haven't considered and scenarios where rape should be an expected consequence. But certainly the example of the lady who took drugs left her vulnerable. Put choices like that can open the door to such awful outcomes.

of course there are things you can do to make yourself vulnerable. But the last thing the police should worry about is reporting a victim to the HCO when someone reports a rape.

[Non Sequitur]

I love byu. I hate the honor code less than the average poster here. But it's a good rule that if someone reports a sexual assault the HC office should stay the hell away and let the police handle it. Yes this may lead to a few more girls making false accusations to avoid HC trouble but it is clearly best to err on the side of compassion for alleged victims, both PR wise and just out of common decency.

I love BYU athletics, but I hate BYU. I would never let my kids attend BYU, and if I had to do over again, I would never go to BYU. Stuff like this just reinforces my feeling that BYU is a cruel joke. that said, Rise and Shout!

[Moliere]

I love BYU athletics, but I hate BYU. I would never let my kids attend BYU, and if I had to do over again, I would never go to BYU. Stuff like this just reinforces my feeling that BYU is a cruel joke. that said, Rise and Shout!

This is the Ben Carson endorsement of byu

[Bo Diddley]

of course there are things you can do to make yourself vulnerable. But the last thing the police should worry about is reporting a victim to the HCO when someone reports a rape.

The police don't report to the HC office. The problem seems to be when students go see the Title IX folks at BYU. That said, stuff becomes public knowledge during a police investigation, and public knowledge has a way of getting to the HC Office.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I can imagine a lawyer arguing that BYU's practices in this regard violate Title IX.

[Applejack]

I love BYU athletics, but I hate BYU. I would never let my kids attend BYU, and if I had to do over again, I would never go to BYU. Stuff like this just reinforces my feeling that BYU is a cruel joke. that said, Rise and Shout!

I agree. Except that I hate BYU athletics too.

[byu71]

I love BYU athletics, but I hate BYU. I would never let my kids attend BYU, and if I had to do over again, I would never go to BYU. Stuff like this just reinforces my feeling that BYU is a cruel joke. that said, Rise and Shout!

I am addicted to BYU athletics. Don't know if that is the same as love. I do love the athletes at BYU and appreciate how they carry themselves realizing they are young and college students and are not perfect. Heck, I guess no one is. That's why I feel bad and somewhat angry when someone slips according to BYU standards and it becomes a public discussion.

BYU is a great academic institution and kids are lucky to go there and so are their parents when you consider the value you get for the dollar.

That all being said, if one of my grandkids asked my opinion on accepting an athletic scholarship, I would dissuade them from going to BYU. The price you may pay for a slip up isn't worth it, IMHO.

[All-American]

This is really just BYU's flavor of the problem of colleges trying to address sexual assault on college campuses. Trying to protect victims and afford due process to the accused has proven to be too difficult a task for colleges across the country. Better to simply refer the matter to law enforcement and let them handle it.

BYU's flavor of the problem is unique in that it asserts an interest in otherwise lawful conduct. But the solution's only a little different. If you don't want the University to have to delve into these issues and inevitably get it wrong from time to time, then leave it to the bishops. The honor code office should be reduced to approximately three people entering ecclesiastical endorsements into excel-- if not disbanded altogether.

[Bo Diddley]

This is really just BYU's flavor of the problem of colleges trying to address sexual assault on college campuses. Trying to protect victims and afford due process to the accused has proven to be too difficult a task for colleges across the country. Better to simply refer the matter to law enforcement and let them handle it.

BYU's flavor of the problem is unique in that it asserts an interest in otherwise lawful conduct. But the solution's only a little different. If you don't want the University to have to delve into these issues and inevitably get it wrong from time to time, then leave it to the bishops. The honor code office should be reduced to approximately three people entering ecclesiastical endorsements into excel-- if not disbanded altogether.

This was where I was leaning as I thought about it yesterday.

I totally agree about Law Enforcement as well. My wife has a cousin how teaches at College of Charleston, and I remember a year or so ago she was going off about how the administration was trying to tell them they couldn't refer students to law enforcement, but rather to work internally first.