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Thread: Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

  1. #31

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    Girl goes to guys apartment. It's a BYU football player. Everyone's drinking. Girl and guy has consensual sex. Later in the night girl has group sex with multiple football players. Girl says it's a rape, she never gave consent. Charges are dropped, nothing can be proven. Guys get kicked out. Regardless of whether it was a rape or not, they were drinking and having sex. Should girl also face the Honor Code? Dunno. I'm just saying I don't know if it's black and white rule that rape victim gets special Honor Code status compared to other parties in the case.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    This is really just BYU's flavor of the problem of colleges trying to address sexual assault on college campuses. Trying to protect victims and afford due process to the accused has proven to be too difficult a task for colleges across the country. Better to simply refer the matter to law enforcement and let them handle it.

    BYU's flavor of the problem is unique in that it asserts an interest in otherwise lawful conduct. But the solution's only a little different. If you don't want the University to have to delve into these issues and inevitably get it wrong from time to time, then leave it to the bishops. The honor code office should be reduced to approximately three people entering ecclesiastical endorsements into excel-- if not disbanded altogether.
    agree

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post

    BYU's flavor of the problem is unique in that it asserts an interest in otherwise lawful conduct. But the solution's only a little different. If you don't want the University to have to delve into these issues and inevitably get it wrong from time to time, then leave it to the bishops. The honor code office should be reduced to approximately three people entering ecclesiastical endorsements into excel-- if not disbanded altogether.
    Bravo, I could get totally behind this suggestion.

  4. #34
    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    How about just make it an academic honor code?

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    How about just make it an academic honor code?
    I would go with that. Then leave it to the bishops to give out ecclesiastical endorsements. The HCO shouldn't exist at all, IMO. If you could get a temple recommend or go on a mission, you can go to school. That's up to the bishop and not anyone else.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I would go with that. Then leave it to the bishops to give out ecclesiastical endorsements. The HCO shouldn't exist at all, IMO. If you could get a temple recommend or go on a mission, you can go to school. That's up to the bishop and not anyone else.
    Has anyone registered the domain name "RateMyBishop.com" yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Has anyone registered the domain name "RateMyBishop.com" yet?
    Isn't that a song by The Prodigy?
    I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
    Isn't that a song by The Prodigy?
    That's "smack my bishop."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
    Isn't that a song by The Prodigy?
    Who the hell is Prodigy?

    I was thinking RateMyBishop.com would be a nice service like RateMyProfessors.com for LDS students, or members in general, shopping around for a new bishop. They folks could get the heads up on the ones that would send you to the HCO or something and avoid moving into those wards.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:16 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    This is going to get really ugly if BYU doesn't get some changes in place. I don't know how anyone can justify what BYU is doing here.

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/3773615-1...-is-threatened
    This just gets more bizzare. I'd like to know what evidence came from the internal investigation that led the Utah County Attorneys to drop the charges against Randolf. And he still has a job working for the Sheriff's Office. What a punk. I'd love for the rape victim to file a civil suit against him.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:20 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    It definitely bothers me that it appears that Randolf will have no repercussions from this. His attitude about it is also really disgusting.

    I also don't get BYU's position in all of this. You have a prosecutor telling them they are interfering with a criminal prosecution and they won't back off. I'd say the rape prosecution is more important than punishing the woman for her alleged honor code violation.
    It was those dang BYU lawyers: "both said school lawyers rebuffed their requests to suspend their process in the interest of the criminal case". Is there a lower class of professionals on Earth?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    It definitely bothers me that it appears that Randolf will have no repercussions from this. His attitude about it is also really disgusting.

    I also don't get BYU's position in all of this. You have a prosecutor telling them they are interfering with a criminal prosecution and they won't back off. I'd say the rape prosecution is more important than punishing the woman for her alleged honor code violation.
    Is it really "interfering" with a criminal prosecution though? I understand it is making it potentially difficult for the victim to stay in school. I guess the allegation is that if she's kicked out of school, she won't stay in Utah? Is there anything really keeping her from coming to Utah for the trial? Or is it just a matter of convenience?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    It was those dang BYU lawyers: "both said school lawyers rebuffed their requests to suspend their process in the interest of the criminal case". Is there a lower class of professionals on Earth?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:21 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Let's say it is only a matter of convenience and nothing else, why in the hell isn't BYU backing off until the criminal prosecution is complete? Suspend the process and let her stay in school. It is going to take a really horrible human being to criticize BYU for giving an alleged rape victim some space and helping keep her life normalized during the prosecution of the rapist.

    I'm sure people are thinking this is just about criticizing BYU because of my hatred of their athletic department. Make no mistake, I hate BYU athletics. I will never apologize for my hatred of BYU athletics or relent, but this has nothing to do with that hatred. I note that I criticized my beloved Blackhawks for bringing Patrick Kane to camp while he was under investigation for sexual assault.
    Okay, I'll play the other side. Is this outrage over BYU refusing to suspend its investigation based in any legal obligation? Or just a moral one?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:21 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    It is moral outrage. I don't practice in Title IX law, so I honestly don't know there legal obligation.
    You weave and totter from outrage to outrage. It must be exhausting.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Okay, I'll play the other side. Is this outrage over BYU refusing to suspend its investigation based in any legal obligation? Or just a moral one?
    I kind of got that impression-- to enforce honor code issues at all, they have to try to enforce every case the same way, and every time they make an exception (no matter how reasonable) it makes it harder to justify when they won't make exceptions.

    Of course, my position is that they should be "enforcing" the honor code the same way in every situation-- not at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    That's "smack my bishop."
    If no one else is gonna give you props on this one,
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    If no one else is gonna give you props on this one,
    The kudos go to Dwight, no? NMD merely spelled out Dwight's joke.
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  23. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Is it really "interfering" with a criminal prosecution though? I understand it is making it potentially difficult for the victim to stay in school. I guess the allegation is that if she's kicked out of school, she won't stay in Utah? Is there anything really keeping her from coming to Utah for the trial? Or is it just a matter of convenience?
    Utah County Attorney Jeff Buhman agrees with you:

    We deal with cases with victims all throughout the country and even internationally. We're able to do this," he said. "It might be a matter of minor inconvenience, but we can certainly do it.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Diddley View Post
    But mpfunk can still be morally outraged, right?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:27 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  26. #56
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    Come on, guys. Funk has already promised that he is completely unbiased and objective about this issue. Seems believable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    This is really just BYU's flavor of the problem of colleges trying to address sexual assault on college campuses. Trying to protect victims and afford due process to the accused has proven to be too difficult a task for colleges across the country. Better to simply refer the matter to law enforcement and let them handle it.

    BYU's flavor of the problem is unique in that it asserts an interest in otherwise lawful conduct. But the solution's only a little different. If you don't want the University to have to delve into these issues and inevitably get it wrong from time to time, then leave it to the bishops. The honor code office should be reduced to approximately three people entering ecclesiastical endorsements into excel-- if not disbanded altogether.
    My point all along.
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    How about just make it an academic honor code?
    I like that as well.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:27 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

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    Last edited by mpfunk; 09-13-2016 at 09:27 AM.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

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