Just wanted to give '71 another reason to complain about the Honor Code

[Northwestcoug]

DeVos planning to scrap Obama rules on campus sexual assault.

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loca...ntent=headline

This might be a good move, on balance. Seems crazy that we are relying on these fake courts set up on campuses.

Fake courts, fake news, amiright?

I'm not sure how bad the problem is. Philosophically, I get the argument that it's wrong have differing burdens of proof in cases of campus and civil sexual assault. But if I'm reading the article right, she is blasting the Obama-era rules without having any specific remedies to put in their place. So she's politicized an already charged issue.

[BigPiney]

Fake courts, fake news, amiright?

I'm not sure how bad the problem is. Philosophically, I get the argument that it's wrong have differing burdens of proof in cases of campus and civil sexual assault. But if I'm reading the article right, she is blasting the Obama-era rules without having any specific remedies to put in their place. So she's politicized an already charged issue.

I saw this article yesterday: https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/07/d...ple-cases-rape

Pretty crazy stuff there if true.

The discussion on NPR that I heard last night seemed to approve of what Devos was doing here.

[old_gregg]

Fake courts, fake news, amiright?

I'm not sure how bad the problem is. Philosophically, I get the argument that it's wrong have differing burdens of proof in cases of campus and civil sexual assault. But if I'm reading the article right, she is blasting the Obama-era rules without having any specific remedies to put in their place. So she's politicized an already charged issue.

isn't a police investigations all the remedy there needs to be

[Jeff Lebowski]

I saw this article yesterday: https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/07/d...ple-cases-rape

Pretty crazy stuff there if true.

The discussion on NPR that I heard last night seemed to approve of what Devos was doing here.

The current system is insane. I don't care if she is a Trump appointee, she is right about this issue.

[Northwestcoug]

I saw this article yesterday: https://reason.com/blog/2017/09/07/d...ple-cases-rape

Pretty crazy stuff there if true.

The discussion on NPR that I heard last night seemed to approve of what Devos was doing here.

Yeah, those are some crazy things that have happened, no doubt due in part to overcautious interpretation of regulations. I would really like to know the details of how Obama changed Title IX investigations, and if those changes are to blame for those specific cases.

I noticed that each of the hyperlinks went to other Reason.com articles. I don't have a beef with a lot of what Reason publishes, but still, they are squarely on one side of the spectrum. They highlight these cases because they go against a few of their libertarian philosophies. I think it's safe to assume that there is a legitimate other side of the story we are not hearing, at least with some of those cases.

isn't a police investigations all the remedy there needs to be

I think that would go a long way with remedying the types of cases that BP linked to above.

[MartyFunkhouser]

isn't a police investigations all the remedy there needs to be

Sure if they actually did an investigation instead of the way that sexual assaults are frequently treated by the police. How many untested rape kits are there in Utah?

[old_gregg]

Sure if they actually did an investigation instead of the way that sexual assaults are frequently treated by the police. How many untested rape kits are there in Utah?

separate issue though right bro?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sure if they actually did an investigation instead of the way that sexual assaults are frequently treated by the police. How many untested rape kits are there in Utah?

So the answer is to get a bunch of people with little or no legal training/background to adjudicate this stuff?

[MartyFunkhouser]

separate issue though right bro?

Sure, separate issues bro. You did say that a police investigation should be the cure. It could be the cure if the investigations are done properly.

So the answer is to get a bunch of people with little or no legal training/background to adjudicate this stuff?

Nope. I just don't trust the current state of the police department to investigate this stuff. But like old_gregg said, it is a separate issue bro. I think the answer is get some people with legal training/background to handle the Title IX stuff. That sounds like a good idea.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sure, separate issues bro. You did say that a police investigation should be the cure. It could be the cure if the investigations are done properly.



Nope. I just don't trust the current state of the police department to investigate this stuff. But like old_gregg said, it is a separate issue bro. I think the answer is get some people with legal training/background to handle the Title IX stuff. That sounds like a good idea.

So we can fix the universities to properly deal with these issues, but we can't fix our criminal justice system?

[MartyFunkhouser]

Good job BYU, now work on bringing what the sponsoring religion teaches children in line with this approach as well. Clearly, this is a good person to have on the advisory committee for sexual assault.

http://kutv.com/news/local/byu-profe...sexual-assault

[Walter Sobchak]

I think the point that was argued was that the church should be safe from criticism for this chewing gum teaching if they don't come out specifically and counsel against it. I was arguing that this teaching is prevalent enough and stems directly enough from their own scriptures and teachings that they deserve no such safeguard. If in fact they are counseling people not to use that analogy anymore, good for them. But until then I think it's fine to suggest that they do.

I think it's silly for the church to make a blanket statement as a whole about any dumb analogy that's been used in the past. Simply because while you might be saying "don't do this", you just know that someone is going to pick it up, file it away in their brain somewhere, and then pull it out and use it years later thinking it was a good analogy instead of a "don't use this" analogy. Plus - some people are just dumb.

On the other hand - I think that an ongoing and continual reinforcement of doctrine/principles is the way to go. Where perhaps the church teaches that sexual purity is important - while reinforcing that no one can take your purity from you without your consent. And perhaps even reinforcing the concept of the atonement making the sinner whole - as if the sin had never happened. Obviously I think you've got to be careful so that all of the high school kids aren't thinking they can try this sex thing out and then just repent later. That's not what we're going for either. But can we allow people to improve themselves?

I just searched LDS.org and found nothing relating chastity to chewing gum. So you want the Brethren to repudiate something they never said? I'm willing to bet that some YW leader came up with that analogy, just like the wilted rose and the licked cupcake.

This one with swordfish(?) fillets looks promising.



https://twitter.com/renoomokri/statu...81736552476673

[falafel]

This one with swordfish(?) fillets looks promising.



https://twitter.com/renoomokri/statu...81736552476673

This belongs in the thread.

[Topper]

This belongs in the thread.

This must be some sick whacked out sense of disturbed humor. No way is that legitimate.

[ScoopJahoop]

So Jan Scharman (student life vp) is retiring. One of the leading candidates to replace her is current Dean of Student Life Sarah “BYU won’t apologize for the chilling effect” Westerberg. Only at BYU.