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Thread: Trigger warnings, safe spaces, and fascism on college campuses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Ithaca College President not yielding to the demands of fascist students.

    http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/n...test/75657728/
    This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.

    It was stupid what the two white alums did, but the President did a lot, just not enough to make the protesters happy.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.

    Yikes. Everything about that guy's body language and attire while calling her savage is appalling. Then he tries to make it okay by getting condescending. Gross.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Yikes. Everything about that guy's body language and attire while calling her savage is appalling. Then he tries to make it okay by getting condescending. Gross.
    I agree that was more uncomfortable than I anticipated, but I can't decide how much of that is because we know about the fallout. I actually think that if we viewed this in a vacuum, it would seem more sexist than racist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    I agree that was more uncomfortable than I anticipated, but I can't decide how much of that is because we know about the fallout. I actually think that if we viewed this in a vacuum, it would seem more sexist than racist.
    I was expecting to pity that guy. I was not expecting to instantly get the outrage. He's gross. Sexism, racism, in this context it's all an alloy.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I was expecting to pity that guy. I was not expecting to instantly get the outrage. He's gross. Sexism, racism, in this context it's all an alloy.
    This is where we part. There is nothing that justifies the outrage; it was awkward and uncomfortable, but it was hardly malicious. However, I agree that his attire is appalling!
    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

    There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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    Fine, be outraged at the old guy wearing the Nantucket reds. Why does the college president need to be fired and why are there a bunch of chubby 18 year old coeds writhing on the ground in utter despair? You can swear they just watched the two girls one cup video. (I think I mentioned this video before a few years back. DON'T GOOGLE IT. If you're curious, look for the reaction videos on youtube.)
    Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. “Colorado is on a par with Oregon,” he said. “Utah isn’t even in the picture.”

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    The University of Michigan business school, in response to the Black Student Union, institutes an Identity 101 class requirement for graduation.

    http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7014

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    Princeton student group sez: you guys are clowns

    http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7026

    Admittedly, civil disobedience (and even law-breaking) can sometimes be justified. However, they cannot be justified when channels of advocacy, through fair procedures of decision-making, are fully open, as they are at our university,” the letter argues. “To adopt these tactics while such procedures for debate and reform are in place is to come dangerously close to the line dividing demonstration from intimidation.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donuthole View Post
    This is where we part. There is nothing that justifies the outrage; it was awkward and uncomfortable, but it was hardly malicious. However, I agree that his attire is appalling!
    You don't get it. It often is not malicious in the most literal definition of the term. But condescension is a form of abuse and aggression.

    His appalling attire is all the more disrespectful since he fancies himself a fashion magnate. His exwife says he's stealing her ideas, which appears to be true, given his personal taste in clothes.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    You don't get it. It often is not malicious in the most literal definition of the term. But condescension is a form of abuse and aggression.

    His appalling attire is all the more disrespectful since he fancies himself a fashion magnate. His exwife says he's stealing her ideas, which appears to be true, given his personal taste in clothes.
    So you are an abuser now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    So you are an abuser now?
    I never condescend. It's one of the most disrespectful ways you can treat people.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    So you are an abuser now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I never condescend. It's one of the most disrespectful ways you can treat people.
    Denial is one of the purest forms of affirmation.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Do the right thing, Princeton: "The overwhelming weight of the evidence argues for rescinding the honor that the university bestowed decades ago on an unrepentant racist."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/op...ol-left-region
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    SU, what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson? How far should this purge go?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    SU, what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson? How far should this purge go?
    I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

    Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 11-24-2015 at 11:36 PM.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

    Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

    Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.
    At least one person on your list of exemplaries also owned slaves. Won't spoil it by telling you who.
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    At least one person on your list of exemplaries also owned slaves. Won't spoil it by telling you who.
    I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakoma View Post
    The University of Michigan business school, in response to the Black Student Union, institutes an Identity 101 class requirement for graduation.

    http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7014

    This angers me. Why just the B school? Why not the entire campus population? This just perpetuates the stereotype that racism is a function of capitalism and cannot be found in academia, charitable orgs, government, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.
    But under your scenario, a person must be perfect and completely in line with 22d Century morals, or otherwise should be purged. None of those individuals were on the forefront of gay marriage so all historical figures should be purged. We should eliminate the names of all historical figures from any street, town, public building, university, school, because each and every one is not as enlightened as humanity will be in the coming centuries. We should countenance no tolerance of imperfection; only people who anticipate each and every social development over the next thousand years is worthy of mention.

    I agree, all people should be burned from our records and memories. You go SU, purge everybody. Nihilism is the only way. Long live Nietzsche!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    This angers me. Why just the B school? Why not the entire campus population? This just perpetuates the stereotype that racism is a function of capitalism and cannot be found in academia, charitable orgs, government, etc.
    There is a stereotype that racism can't be found in academia or government??
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    Default Trigger warnings, safe spaces, and fascism on college campuses

    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.
    But didn't you also say Washington and Jefferson acknowledged the wrongness of slavery? And why doesn't Washington get credit for freeing his slaves?

    I agree, by the way, with your assignment of Franklin as an enlightened individual, as further evidenced by the fact that after his death, he was among those who asked Wilfred Woodruff to perform posthumous ordinances.
    Last edited by All-American; 11-25-2015 at 08:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    But under your scenario, a person must be perfect and completely in line with 22d Century morals, or otherwise should be purged. None of those individuals were on the forefront of gay marriage so all historical figures should be purged. We should eliminate the names of all historical figures from any street, town, public building, university, school, because each and every one is not as enlightened as humanity will be in the coming centuries. We should countenance no tolerance of imperfection; only people who anticipate each and every social development over the next thousand years is worthy of mention.

    I agree, all people should be burned from our records and memories. You go SU, purge everybody. Nihilism is the only way. Long live Nietzsche!


    Stop feeding the troll....
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post


    Stop feeding the troll....
    SU is on a roll though. We can purge society of all imperfect people, being careful not to condescend, else we become abusers and must purge ourselves. I like his standards. Purge the earth of the scourge which is humanity.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

    Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.
    I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

    I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

    However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

    I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

    However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.
    Well said. I tire of people today who stand on the shoulders of history's philosophical giants and spit down at anyone in the past who wasn't 100% pure by today's standards. Jefferson and Washington were flawed like everyone else. But the balance of their lives were a huge net positive for America and the rest of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

    I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

    However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.
    The part of Judaism and Islam I most agree with is no graven images (Christianity claims this rule too but absolutely does not live by it; it's a creed that adores men if there ever was one).
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    The part of Judaism and Islam I most agree with is no graven images (Christianity claims this rule too but absolutely does not live by it; it's a creed that adores men if there ever was one).
    Whoa, wait a minute. Weren't you weeping at the Lincoln Memorial?
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