Trigger warnings, safe spaces, and fascism on college campuses

[CardiacCoug]

Ithaca College President not yielding to the demands of fascist students.

http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/n...test/75657728/

This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.

[Topper]

This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.

It was stupid what the two white alums did, but the President did a lot, just not enough to make the protesters happy.

[SeattleUte]

This is what started the stuff at Ithaca college. Looks like an AA woman refers to having a "savage hunger" to succeed and rich white guys repeat the phrase and refer to her as a "savage" in a joking way.

Yikes. Everything about that guy's body language and attire while calling her savage is appalling. Then he tries to make it okay by getting condescending. Gross.

[Donuthole]

Yikes. Everything about that guy's body language and attire while calling her savage is appalling. Then he tries to make it okay by getting condescending. Gross.

I agree that was more uncomfortable than I anticipated, but I can't decide how much of that is because we know about the fallout. I actually think that if we viewed this in a vacuum, it would seem more sexist than racist.

[SeattleUte]

I agree that was more uncomfortable than I anticipated, but I can't decide how much of that is because we know about the fallout. I actually think that if we viewed this in a vacuum, it would seem more sexist than racist.

I was expecting to pity that guy. I was not expecting to instantly get the outrage. He's gross. Sexism, racism, in this context it's all an alloy.

[Donuthole]

I was expecting to pity that guy. I was not expecting to instantly get the outrage. He's gross. Sexism, racism, in this context it's all an alloy.

This is where we part. There is nothing that justifies the outrage; it was awkward and uncomfortable, but it was hardly malicious. However, I agree that his attire is appalling!

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Fine, be outraged at the old guy wearing the Nantucket reds. Why does the college president need to be fired and why are there a bunch of chubby 18 year old coeds writhing on the ground in utter despair? You can swear they just watched the two girls one cup video. (I think I mentioned this video before a few years back. DON'T GOOGLE IT. If you're curious, look for the reaction videos on youtube.)

[Nakoma]

The University of Michigan business school, in response to the Black Student Union, institutes an Identity 101 class requirement for graduation.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7014

[TripletDaddy]

Princeton student group sez: you guys are clowns

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7026

Admittedly, civil disobedience (and even law-breaking) can sometimes be justified. However, they cannot be justified when channels of advocacy, through fair procedures of decision-making, are fully open, as they are at our university,” the letter argues. “To adopt these tactics while such procedures for debate and reform are in place is to come dangerously close to the line dividing demonstration from intimidation.”

[SeattleUte]

This is where we part. There is nothing that justifies the outrage; it was awkward and uncomfortable, but it was hardly malicious. However, I agree that his attire is appalling!

You don't get it. It often is not malicious in the most literal definition of the term. But condescension is a form of abuse and aggression.

His appalling attire is all the more disrespectful since he fancies himself a fashion magnate. His exwife says he's stealing her ideas, which appears to be true, given his personal taste in clothes.

[Topper]

You don't get it. It often is not malicious in the most literal definition of the term. But condescension is a form of abuse and aggression.

His appalling attire is all the more disrespectful since he fancies himself a fashion magnate. His exwife says he's stealing her ideas, which appears to be true, given his personal taste in clothes.

So you are an abuser now?

[SeattleUte]

So you are an abuser now?

I never condescend. It's one of the most disrespectful ways you can treat people.

[Commando]

So you are an abuser now?

SU Topper

[Topper]

I never condescend. It's one of the most disrespectful ways you can treat people.

Denial is one of the purest forms of affirmation.

[SeattleUte]

Do the right thing, Princeton: "The overwhelming weight of the evidence argues for rescinding the honor that the university bestowed decades ago on an unrepentant racist."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/op...ol-left-region

[Jeff Lebowski]

SU, what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson? How far should this purge go?

[SeattleUte]

SU, what are your thoughts on Thomas Jefferson? How far should this purge go?

I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.

[Moliere]

I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.

[All-American]

I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.

At least one person on your list of exemplaries also owned slaves. Won't spoil it by telling you who.

[SeattleUte]

At least one person on your list of exemplaries also owned slaves. Won't spoil it by telling you who.

I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.

[Katy Lied]

The University of Michigan business school, in response to the Black Student Union, institutes an Identity 101 class requirement for graduation.

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7014

This angers me. Why just the B school? Why not the entire campus population? This just perpetuates the stereotype that racism is a function of capitalism and cannot be found in academia, charitable orgs, government, etc.

[Topper]

I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.

But under your scenario, a person must be perfect and completely in line with 22d Century morals, or otherwise should be purged. None of those individuals were on the forefront of gay marriage so all historical figures should be purged. We should eliminate the names of all historical figures from any street, town, public building, university, school, because each and every one is not as enlightened as humanity will be in the coming centuries. We should countenance no tolerance of imperfection; only people who anticipate each and every social development over the next thousand years is worthy of mention.

I agree, all people should be burned from our records and memories. You go SU, purge everybody. Nihilism is the only way. Long live Nietzsche!

[TripletDaddy]

This angers me. Why just the B school? Why not the entire campus population? This just perpetuates the stereotype that racism is a function of capitalism and cannot be found in academia, charitable orgs, government, etc.

There is a stereotype that racism can't be found in academia or government??

[All-American]

I expected more from you. Long before his death Franklin had repudiated slavery, freed slaves, and was as enlightened as the current gold standard.

But didn't you also say Washington and Jefferson acknowledged the wrongness of slavery? And why doesn't Washington get credit for freeing his slaves?

I agree, by the way, with your assignment of Franklin as an enlightened individual, as further evidenced by the fact that after his death, he was among those who asked Wilfred Woodruff to perform posthumous ordinances.

[Moliere]

But under your scenario, a person must be perfect and completely in line with 22d Century morals, or otherwise should be purged. None of those individuals were on the forefront of gay marriage so all historical figures should be purged. We should eliminate the names of all historical figures from any street, town, public building, university, school, because each and every one is not as enlightened as humanity will be in the coming centuries. We should countenance no tolerance of imperfection; only people who anticipate each and every social development over the next thousand years is worthy of mention.

I agree, all people should be burned from our records and memories. You go SU, purge everybody. Nihilism is the only way. Long live Nietzsche!

Stop feeding the troll....

[Topper]

Stop feeding the troll....

SU is on a roll though. We can purge society of all imperfect people, being careful not to condescend, else we become abusers and must purge ourselves. I like his standards. Purge the earth of the scourge which is humanity.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think Jefferson is a plaster saint. I hope they purge him. I've long felt that we should stop making excuses for people like Jefferson and Washington, when there have been people that came before them who knew slavery was wrong. We've treated this contradiction that the Constitution recognized slavery as a mystery. It wasn't a mystery. Aside from the huge distraction of Washington and Jefferson, there were many men and women who were contemporaries or came before these men and were exemplary by our standards. The world didn’t become enlightened overnight, as throughout history there have always been people on the planet who were completely, 100% enlightened from our perspective. Some of them who are now household names were Charles Darwin, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Henry David Thoreau, Voltaire, David Hume, Adam Smith, Edward Gibbon, Edmond Burke (a religious man who has become known as the father of modern conservatism, actually), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Joseph Priestley (a clergyman), Mark Twain, and many others including women such as Mary Wollstonecraft, Madame Roland and Olympe de Gouges who are today less prominent in history.

Still, at least Washington and Jefferson admitted in their lifetimes that what they were doing to black people was egregiously immoral, which is quite unusual if you think about it, and better than Woodrow Wilson, Brigham Young, and J. Reuben Clark.

I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.

[Omaha 680]

I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.

Well said. I tire of people today who stand on the shoulders of history's philosophical giants and spit down at anyone in the past who wasn't 100% pure by today's standards. Jefferson and Washington were flawed like everyone else. But the balance of their lives were a huge net positive for America and the rest of the world.

[SeattleUte]

I agree that someone should not be given a pass because he was a US president. I hate the timing and the manner in which it is being handled, but Woodrow Wilson was a terrible president. In addition to the things mentioned in the NYT article, he also issued an executive order making it illegal to say or print anything that would "hurt morale" during WWI, effectively gutting freedom of speech and freedom of the press. As a result, when the flu pandemic started sweeping the US, most cities did not print ANYTHING about it for fear that it would be perceived as hurting morale and land them in jail. People went to public rallies and events and the flu spread like wildfire. Hospitals and doctors were caught off guard. San Francisco (and a handful of other cities) was an exception and they issued quick warnings and had fewer deaths as a result.

I also think that Andrew Jackson was a scoundrel. Get him off the twenty.

However, as others have pointed out, the notion that historical figures can be neatly and cleanly divided into good guys and bad guys is simply wrong. Jefferson is a great example. Yes, he did some awful things with his slaves, but he was a genius and had a tremendous positive impact on the history of the US and the world. Also, you and I both love Abraham Lincoln, but he severely curtailed civil rights during the war and even though he helped free slaves, he believed blacks were inferior humans in many ways. But god bless Abe Lincoln. It is OK to acknowledge that people are complex and flawed, including our heroes.

The part of Judaism and Islam I most agree with is no graven images (Christianity claims this rule too but absolutely does not live by it; it's a creed that adores men if there ever was one).

[Jeff Lebowski]

The part of Judaism and Islam I most agree with is no graven images (Christianity claims this rule too but absolutely does not live by it; it's a creed that adores men if there ever was one).

Whoa, wait a minute. Weren't you weeping at the Lincoln Memorial?