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Thread: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - The Socialism Thread

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Default "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - The Socialism Thread

    In the history of the world the government systems that have most abridged liberty and committed genocide--indeed, pioneered totalitarianism and genocide--have been theocratic or had the word socialism or socialist in the names by which they identified themselves. How a politician can today call himself a socialist and be viable really shows historical amnesia. But that is what Bernie Sanders calls himself. We also have here in Seattle a city council member who is proud to call herself a socialist. Truth can be so elusive, but one thing that ought to be indisputable is socialism's total ineffectiveness in solving the economic problem, its total lack of credibility. And here's a rule of thumb: socialism--a centralized or planned economy--is the economic side of totalitarianism. But it's back!

    Now, today, The New York Times reminds us of this sobering history:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ol-left-region

    "The 'first wave' [of democracy] began with the American and French revolutions, and 29 countries became democracies in the period up to 1922. That number shrank to 12 with the rise of Communism, Fascism and Nazism. . . ." And so on; thereafter it has ebbed and flowed. So, it took us humans 200,000 years (since behaviorally and anatomically modern humans have existed) to first achieve democracy (albeit in the United States form with black slavery and disenfranchised women and the French form which wound up with an Emperor in about a decade following many beheadings), and it still ebbs, is ebbing now.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    The UK Labour Party is now led by a man who is proud to call himself a socialist.

    In a war of words that heralds a new phase in the hitherto relatively polite Democratic primary campaign, Sanders was reportedly criticised over his backing of Corbyn – the leftwing socialist who came from nowhere to win a landslide victory in the Labour leadership contest on Saturday – by Correct the Record, a so-called Super Pac that raises unlimited sums from wealthy donors to support Clinton.
    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...mment-59572751
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Blah, blah, blah. Stick to attacking orthodoxy that's what you're good at.

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    Recently the Wall Street Journal had an article that stated that if Bernie Sanders were to implement his plans for America he would have to raise government revenues by a staggering $18 trillion over a decade.

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. Stick to attacking orthodoxy that's what you're good at.
    If you don't think I'm doing that you don't know much about where I live.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. Stick to attacking orthodoxy that's what you're good at.
    So you and JL are against political blathering?

    By the way, Seattle is spot on in many of these observations.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    So you and JL are against political blathering?
    WTH?
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    WTH?
    This is pretty much my response to all of Topper's comments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    Recently the Wall Street Journal had an article that stated that if Bernie Sanders were to implement his plans for America he would have to raise government revenues by a staggering $18 trillion over a decade.
    I'm convinced some people don't think money is real, as long as its the Fed spending it. Arguments like this do not move them. We will never have to pay the piper.

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    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    If you don't think I'm doing that you don't know much about where I live.
    Fair point. I should have said religious orthodoxy. It's pretty disingenuous to state that the name of parties has anything to do with drawing comparisons to their governing style or ideology. Surely you know better than that.

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    Fair point. I should have said religious orthodoxy. It's pretty disingenuous to state that the name of parties has anything to do with drawing comparisons to their governing style or ideology. Surely you know better than that.
    Where did I say anything about the name of a party? I simply identified individuals who have called themselves socialists.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    вот так штука CardiacCoug's Avatar
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    SU is right. Socialism is evil -- that's one thing ETB had right.

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    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Where did I say anything about the name of a party? .
    The first paragraph.

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    The first paragraph.
    The UK Labour Party? It's a fact that Jeremy Corbin calls himself a socialist. I didn't say democrat or republican in any of my posts.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    The first paragraph.
    SMACKDOWN!!!!
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.


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    Suomalainen New Mexican Disaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    In the history of the world the government systems that have most abridged liberty and committed genocide--indeed, pioneered totalitarianism and genocide--have been theocratic or had the word socialism or socialist in the names by which they identified themselves. .
    This right here.

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    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    At noon the fed anounces a rate hike or they don't. I hope they do. Anyone have some inside information. I would like to make a few quick bucks.

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    Kicked to the curb San Juan Sun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byu71 View Post
    Anyone have some inside information.
    "Sure, I fought. I had to fight all my life just to survive. They were all against me. Tried every dirty trick to cut me down, but I beat the bastards and left them in the ditch."

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Mexican Disaster View Post
    This right here.
    So the Nazis and Soviets called themselves socialists, but you say we shouldn't accept that at face value and wonder if someone else who calls himself that is similar? They had planned economies, did they not? Do you think they weren't socialists? Also, Nazi and USSR wasn't merely the name of a party.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    so disappointed in this thread. thought I would be reading about how the rivalry is alive and well, not politics.
    Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
    God forgives many things for an act of mercy
    Alessandro Manzoni

    Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

    pelagius

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    Quote Originally Posted by pellegrino View Post
    so disappointed in this thread. thought I would be reading about how the rivalry is alive and well, not politics.
    There's nothing more interesting than this subject. Here's what's hard for some well-meaning people to grasp. You can't separate economic liberty from other liberties. It's not a coincidence that the richest countries most highly value human rights and are the freest, the cleanest, the most protective of the environment, and actually pioneered representative government, civil rights, and so on. Science, education, charity, the rule of law, environmentalism, all require accumulation of capital. Unless our basic needs are satisfied we're going to be looking to taking from someone or some animal by force to satisfy them.

    But that is not all. Hardly. Capitalism doesn't care about race, creed, ethnicity, or gender. What matters is customers, clients, suppliers, etc., whoever can make you money or has something to sell that will help make you and it make more money or make your life easier or more pleasurable. The indiscriminate, universal quality of capitalism is a beautiful thing, and as a practical matter the actual force that makes "the American dream" possible. The laws are just the rule book that try to make capitalism fair--because it is also competitive. At a practice level capitalism necessarily dissolves tribalism and cultural chauvinism--it's not about religious differences, race or nationality. On the contrary; it's all about sales and profits. Capitalism always precedes love for your fellow creatures. Nietzsche was right; capitalism is perhaps the most lasting fruit of Christianity, and it's also the one that ultimately redeems it.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    There's nothing more interesting than this subject. Here's what's hard for some well-meaning people to grasp. You can't separate economic liberty from other liberties. It's not a coincidence that the richest countries most highly value human rights and are the freest, the cleanest, the most protective of the environment, and actually pioneered representative government, civil rights, and so on. Science, education, charity, the rule of law, environmentalism, all require accumulation of capital. Unless our basic needs are satisfied we're going to be looking to taking from someone or some animal by force to satisfy them.

    But that is not all. Hardly. Capitalism doesn't care about race, creed, ethnicity, or gender. What matters is customers, clients, suppliers, etc., whoever can make you money or has something to sell that will help make you and it make more money or make your life easier or more pleasurable. The indiscriminate, universal quality of capitalism is a beautiful thing, and as a practical matter the actual force that makes "the American dream" possible. The laws are just the rule book that try to make capitalism fair--because it is also competitive. At a practice level capitalism necessarily dissolves tribalism and cultural chauvinism--it's not about religious differences, race or nationality. On the contrary; it's all about sales and profits. Capitalism always precedes love for your fellow creatures. Nietzsche was right; capitalism is perhaps the most lasting fruit of Christianity, and it's also the one that ultimately redeems it.
    I like your take on capitalism. The only add-on for a summary statement such as this is that capitalism succeeds in benefiting society if competition remains, so it's one of government primary functions to ensure competition remains robust. (You probably imply that with your statement about the purpose of laws). Again economic liberty is one of the most valuable liberties society should protect.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    I loved it when Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union. If not for anything else, Walker is a hero for busting the government unions in Wisco.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Well done, Frank. Your image captures perfectly the socialist delusion.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    I loved it when Reagan busted the Air Traffic Controllers Union. If not for anything else, Walker is a hero for busting the government unions in Wisco.
    Now you are trying to get under my skin.

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    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Well done, Frank. Your image captures perfectly the socialist delusion.
    Some imaginative person should use that but insert President Obama and Elizabeth Warren side by side throwing out the money.

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    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Another country destroyed by socialism. Not so long ago Venezuela was the richest country in South America per capita.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst.../#52398d7a4544
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/wo...e-iphone-share

    The last paragraph of this passage from the article is unbearably ironic (I bet Canada disagrees!):

    Supplies are lacking, electricity goes out, equipment is broken and patients lie in pools of blood as the country’s economic crisis has exploded into a public health emergency.
    The crisis is caught now in a political feud between Venezuela’s leftists, who control the presidency, and their rivals in congress. The president’s opponents in the legislature declared a humanitarian crisis in January, and this month passed a law that would allow Venezuela to accept international aid to prop up the health care system.
    “This is criminal that we can sit in a country with this much oil, and people are dying for lack of antibiotics,” says Oneida Guaipe, a lawmaker and former hospital union leader.
    But Mr. Maduro, who succeeded Hugo Chávez, went on television and rejected the effort, describing the move as a bid to undermine him and privatize the hospital system.
    “I doubt that anywhere in the world, except in Cuba, there exists a better health system than this one,” Mr. Maduro said.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

    --Jonathan Swift

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