The abhorrence of socialism is in my DNA, or was at least beaten into me throughout my childhood, and I don't see that changing. But are we really talking about socialism when discussing Bernie? I thought socialism required public ownership of all of the means of production, which is a bit more than what Bernie is calling for. is the concern that his proposals are simply steps toward his end game of true socialism? And if one rejects his proposals, should one also support the rollback of other social programs (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, K-12 education)? At what point does a useful government program move into the socialism danger zone? Please keep your answers to 25 words or less, unless you're not Donald Trump.
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"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - The Socialism Thread
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Originally posted by SeattleUte View PostApparently there are some who need convincing. Bernie took what, 100% of Utah votes? Cardiac's assessment is that even the Utah democrats would prefer a socialist to a woman. Clearly they Republicans would prefer an aspiring dictator likeTrump to a woman.Originally posted by Blueintheface View PostMan, I hate agreeing with SU but I live here. Despite your absence from the area for quite some time SU, your assessment is still accurate...and embarrassing.
Eight years ago, it was all about how Utah would never elect a Black man because we are racist. (Sure...it had NOTHING to do with Obama or his party.)
Are you really now trying to push that Utah doesn't like Hillary simply because she is a woman? (And, conversely, that it has NOTHING to do with who Hillary is or her party?)
Get the Republicans to put Condoleeza Rice on the ballot and I suspect that you'd get to see Utah vote for both a Woman and a Black person in the same damn election!
I don't think this is about race OR gender.
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Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View PostThe abhorrence of socialism is in my DNA, or was at least beaten into me throughout my childhood, and I don't see that changing. But are we really talking about socialism when discussing Bernie? I thought socialism required public ownership of all of the means of production, which is a bit more than what Bernie is calling for. is the concern that his proposals are simply steps toward his end game of true socialism? And if one rejects his proposals, should one also support the rollback of other social programs (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, K-12 education)? At what point does a useful government program move into the socialism danger zone? Please keep your answers to 25 words or less, unless you're not Donald Trump.
I'm not your grandpa's socialism hater. But yes, it's a continuum. You don't want us to become Canada, trust me.
I understand the importance of certain social programs; I have family who are beneficiaries of them, and someday I will be too. But Bernie's comprehensive world view is infuriating if not disturbing--tariffs, demonizing immigrants, pandering to lazy entitled Millennials, blaming everybody's ennui on Wall Street and Mexican immigrants. He's pulled off the difficult feat of attracting both the insular and elitist liberals who think that progressivism is all about bemoaning climate change and avoiding genetically engineered foods and reflexively hating corporations (including those that produce vaccines and especially Amazon even though it may be in your own town stuffing goodies in your mouth)--clueless that it would be the poor especially in the most downtrodden countries that their ideas would most injure if put into practice--and the angry jobless white working class who actually are repulsive to the other branch of his constituency. Yes, now that Mormonism is effectively irrelevant, I've got my sight on a new kind of more dangerous religion. What's disturbing is the dogmatic outlook that calling yourself a socialist betrays.Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-16-2016, 04:21 PM.When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan Swift
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Originally posted by PaloAltoCougar View PostThe abhorrence of socialism is in my DNA, or was at least beaten into me throughout my childhood, and I don't see that changing. But are we really talking about socialism when discussing Bernie? I thought socialism required public ownership of all of the means of production, which is a bit more than what Bernie is calling for. is the concern that his proposals are simply steps toward his end game of true socialism? And if one rejects his proposals, should one also support the rollback of other social programs (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, K-12 education)? At what point does a useful government program move into the socialism danger zone? Please keep your answers to 25 words or less, unless you're not Donald Trump.
Socialism has degrees and to the extent a society is economically successful enough, it might afford them for a while, but eventually their cost will cause negative effects.
If you monitor the western socialist adventures, most of them were implemented soon after WWII in nations that had almost full employment with previously dynamic capitalist economies. It was a burden. However, look to any economy that started with socialism and you won't find a vibrant economy. Example, look to Venezuela or Cuba. Only the capitalist elements provide success; the socialist element degrade life overall and the economy overall."Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
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Originally posted by Eddie View PostIt always bugs me when statements like this get thrown out there.
Eight years ago, it was all about how Utah would never elect a Black man because we are racist. (Sure...it had NOTHING to do with Obama or his party.)
Are you really now trying to push that Utah doesn't like Hillary simply because she is a woman? (And, conversely, that it has NOTHING to do with who Hillary is or her party?)
SU is pretending that the only distinguishing feature of Bernie is that he is a socialist while also ignoring that Hillary has socialist tendencies. He is also directly implying that the only distinguishing feature of Hillary is that she is woman, a notion that that is extremely sexist.
Originally posted by Eddie View PostGet the Republicans to put Condoleeza Rice on the ballot and I suspect that you'd get to see Utah vote for both a Woman and a Black person in the same damn election!
I don't think this is about race OR gender."There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
"It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
"Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostExactly. SU is peeved that Utah dumped Trump so he is making up crap in an attempt to save face in his lifelong campaign to discredit Utah/Mormons.
SU is pretending that the only distinguishing feature of Bernie is that he is a socialist while also ignoring that Hillary has socialist tendencies. He is also directly implying that the only distinguishing feature of Hillary is that she is woman, a notion that that is extremely sexist.
That already happened. Mia Love. Yet another fact overlooked by SU."Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."
Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.
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Originally posted by Topper View PostUtah has distinct voting tendencies, but those tendencies don't seem to be tied to misogyny or racism. This election is trying the faith of the elected, the very elite.
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“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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This is awesome for Seattle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/n...q2-queens.html
I wonder why the Washington Post never stirred up opposition in Northern Virginia? Makes no sense.When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan Swift
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Originally posted by SeattleUte View PostThis is awesome for Seattle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/n...q2-queens.html
I wonder why the Washington Post never stirred up opposition in Northern Virginia? Makes no sense.
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Originally posted by Omaha 680 View PostYou must be confused. AOC and the NYC city council are claiming victory.
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Socialism isn’t working in China either. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-chi..._copyURL_shareWhen a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan Swift
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Originally posted by SeattleUte View PostWhich is why I put this in the socialism thread. Their radicalism is too much even for the New York Times (which bears a lot of responsibity for this happening) and Governor Cuomo.
Socialism isn’t working in China either. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-chi..._copyURL_share
Weird statement on the NY Times.
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Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
Weird statement on the NY Times.When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan Swift
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Last edited by Walter Sobchak; 02-27-2019, 02:06 PM.You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay
Almost everything you post is snarky, smug, condescending, or just downright mean-spirited. --Jeffrey Lebowski
Anyone can make war, but only the most courageous can make peace. --President Donald J. Trump
You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst
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