The Sports Officials Thread

[Omaha 680]

I have been reffing high school soccer the last 2 years. Because of the remote are that I live in (2 high schools within 100 miles of my house have programs) I don't get to do many games, but it has been fun. I guess we are supposed to do 16 hours of training every year, but since that is more hours than I will actually be on the field, they tend to cut it short for us. We did 1 1/2 hours on saturday to go over all the rule changes and points of emphasis for this year. Next week we will spend an hour on the field going over mechanics and we will be ready to go.

I think I would enjoy soccer but unfortunately it is the same season as football in NYC. Football is a huge time commitment and it would probably be impossible to take on another sport at the same time. In Nebraska soccer is a spring sport so maybe I'll get into it after I move some day.

I chuckled a bit when you said an hour for field mechanics because we had five 2.5 hour sessions over the summer on mechanics. I guess it is relatively simple for soccer though.

[Omaha 680]

Two firsts for me tonight. First time at Line Judge running the clock and first varsity game. I'm doing back to back games for the same schools. Line judge in the JV game and Head Linesman in the Varsity game.

[Omaha 680]

I have a question for football officials. I have been studying kicking rules in detail lately because that's where all the crazy crap happens in HS football. The rules state that when a kick (free or scrimmage kick) becomes dead in the receivers' (R's) end zone, it is ALWAYS a touchback. When you couple this with the definition of a kick, which by rule doesn't end until the ball is possessed, it appears that the only way K can score on a kicking play (touchdown or safety) is if R possesses the ball and then fumbles or runs backward into the end zone.

Example: K1 executes a legal scrimmage kick which is muffed by R1 at R's 10 yard line. After the muff the kick is grounded. The kick is then muffed by various players on K and R in an attempt to secure possession and eventually goes out of bounds in R's end zone. The last person to muff the ball before it crossed the goal line was R2. By definition, R provided the force that put the ball in the end zone, so on a normal play this would be a safety and 2 points for K. However, by rule the kick had not ended yet and the ball became dead in the end zone. Therefore, in this situation it is a touchback for R.

Do I have this correct?

[Shaka]

I have a question for football officials. I have been studying kicking rules in detail lately because that's where all the crazy crap happens in HS football. The rules state that when a kick (free or scrimmage kick) becomes dead in the receivers' (R's) end zone, it is ALWAYS a touchback. When you couple this with the definition of a kick, which by rule doesn't end until the ball is possessed, it appears that the only way K can score on a kicking play (touchdown or safety) is if R possesses the ball and then fumbles or runs backward into the end zone.

Example: K1 executes a legal scrimmage kick which is muffed by R1 at R's 10 yard line. After the muff the kick is grounded. The kick is then muffed by various players on K and R in an attempt to secure possession and eventually goes out of bounds in R's end zone. The last person to muff the ball before it crossed the goal line was R2. By definition, R provided the force that put the ball in the end zone, so on a normal play this would be a safety and 2 points for K. However, by rule the kick had not ended yet and the ball became dead in the end zone. Therefore, in this situation it is a touchback for R.

Do I have this correct?

The muff doesn't mean there was possession. Because there was no possession the ball is dead as soon as it crosses the goal line and a touchback is awarded.

[Omaha 680]

The muff doesn't mean there was possession. Because there was no possession the ball is dead as soon as it crosses the goal line and a touchback is awarded.

Thanks for responding. Correct that the ball is dead as a touchback for R if it crosses R's goal line before the kick ends. In my example the kick was not ended by possession so it is a touchback even if R forced it over the goal line with a muff of the grounded kick. I was overthinking it.

Mainly I was trying to work through in my mind when a muff constitutes new force, and it would be better to study this thinking of an example when a grounded kick is forced into K's end zone. Because in that scenario the ball does not become dead when it crosses the goal line. So the result of the play depends on force and/or final possession.

[Omaha 680]

I had a weird one tonight. The first half expired during a play. At the end of the play the runner ran out of bounds and then was hit about 3 yards after he crossed the sideline. The tackler then stood over the runner and taunted him. The LJ flagged the tackler for the personal foul for the dead ball hit and also an unsportsmanlike for taunting. The referee ruled that because the half ended when the player ran out of bounds, any subsequent penalties do not trigger the need for one untimed down...so the half was over. I think we screwed it up though. The rule book says that one untimed down is not played after an accepted penalty only when the penalty is unsportsmanlike or has a loss of down provision. So I believe the personal foul should have triggered another down after marking both penaltied. We instead marked both penalties off on the second half kickoff which resulted in a kick from the kickING team'a 12.5 yard line

[Omaha 680]

I had a weird one tonight. The first half expired during a play. At the end of the play the runner ran out of bounds and then was hit about 3 yards after he crossed the sideline. The tackler then stood over the runner and taunted him. The LJ flagged the tackler for the personal foul for the dead ball hit and also an unsportsmanlike for taunting. The referee ruled that because the half ended when the player ran out of bounds, any subsequent penalties do not trigger the need for one untimed down...so the half was over. I think we screwed it up though. The rule book says that one untimed down is not played after an accepted penalty only when the penalty is unsportsmanlike or has a loss of down provision. So I believe the personal foul should have triggered another down after marking both penaltied. We instead marked both penalties off on the second half kickoff which resulted in a kick from the kickING team'a 12.5 yard line

I talk to myself a lot in this thread, but just to close the loop on this sequence: it turns out we were correct how we administered the penalties. Rule 3-3-6 states that any dead ball penalties after time expires shall be administered from the succeeding spot. The succeeding spot is defined as the spot from which the ball would next be put in play had there been no penalty. No penalty means the half is over, so the succeeding spot is the second half kickoff. 3-3-4 and 3-3-5 also talk about what fouls that are committed during a down in which time expires trigger or do not trigger an extra untimed down. A down is defined ends when the ball becomes dead so any dead ball foul would not trigger an untimed down.

[Shaka]

I try to respond when I can. I've been dirt biking in Moab for the last few days.

[Omaha 680]

I try to respond when I can. I've been dirt biking in Moab for the last few days.

No problem. I appreciate input when you are able. I'd rather dirt bike than post in this thread, too.

[Moliere]

No problem. I appreciate input when you are able. I'd rather dirt bike than post in this thread, too.

Knowing Shaka, dirt biking is probably a euphemism.

[Shaka]

Knowing Shaka, dirt biking is probably a euphemism.

In this case no.

[Omaha 680]

It's that time of year. I just went to the annual football rules interpretations meeting last night. Not a lot of rule changes this year. Most had to do with equipment. The one playing rule change was eliminating the clipping exception in the free blocking zone. So now clipping is illegal everywhere and that's good. I got assigned five varsity games already and there should be a lot more to come. Movin' on up. We also changed our shirt type (2.25" stripes like the college guys now instead of the old 1" stripes) so I had to buy all new shirts. Excited for the season to start.

This spring I also got my IAABO certification as a basketball official but have yet to ref a game. I'm hoping to start that this winter season.

[byu71]

It's that time of year. I just went to the annual football rules interpretations meeting last night. Not a lot of rule changes this year. Most had to do with equipment. The one playing rule change was eliminating the clipping exception in the free blocking zone. So now clipping is illegal everywhere and that's good. I got assigned five varsity games already and there should be a lot more to come. Movin' on up. We also changed our shirt type (2.25" stripes like the college guys now instead of the old 1" stripes) so I had to buy all new shirts. Excited for the season to start.

This spring I also got my IAABO certification as a basketball official but have yet to ref a game. I'm hoping to start that this winter season.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Omaha 680]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

I officiate in New York City. I would consider booing charming.

[Omaha 680]

I did three football games over the weekend and I'm exhausted. Two of them were varsity though so I'm happy with my progress.

Football officials: what specific steps do you take to keep your sidelines clear when you are on the wings? I feel like we have let the coaches get into very bad habits in the city because we always tell them to get back but never do anything about it. I typically don't have problems with players. The situation is difficult on guys like me who want to clean it up because opinions on how to handle it vary wildly depending on which white hat is leading your crew. It varies from "don't move out of their way; knock their ass down if they are in your space and flag them for 15 yards for sideline interference" to "give them several verbal warnings before throwing the flag for a sideline warning...then several more before you penalize them yardage".

I think intentionally running into someone is a dick move, but I do want them to get back as it's a safety issue. We move pretty fast on long yardage plays and I could put myself and a coach in the hospital if we have a blindside collision. I'm starting to think I will continue my verbal warnings between plays, but the first time I have to warn someone during a play or run around them, I will throw the sideline warning flag. Every time after that will be an unsportsmanlike conduct foul per the rule book (5 yards, then 15 yards for each subsequent). I hate to be a hard ass but on some issues coaches only understand penalty flags. Thoughts?