Levin's new project

[SoonerCoug]

I'm really proud of Levin for spearheading this.

BYU graduates complain to accrediting board over school’s treatment of lapsed-Mormon students

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2288397-1...rediting-board

Levin says the policy violates the accrediting board's standard that students are free to "examine thought, reason and perspectives of truth" and "share their reasoned conclusions with others." He believes the complaint will highlight a violation that will affect BYU's accreditation, which is due for a seven-year review in April.

Who knew Levin was so rational?

[Commando]

Isn't he your arch enemy on this board?

Edit. Ok I get it- you're making a funny. Carry on.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am embarrassed that these BYU grads are so lacking in critical thinking skills as to promote this dumb idea. It will be addressed in about 90 seconds by the university admin if it is raised by the accreditation committee. Scratch that, I doubt it will even come up.

[Non Sequitur]

It was a fun article. Anytime I get to hear Carrie Jenkins I know I'm in for a treat. She's BYU's version of Irwin Mainway.

[Moliere]

It's odd that Sooner posted this after the game. Usually he does it right in the middle of the game.

[CardiacCoug]

I understand what you're saying JL but surely you don't think BYU is correct in kicking out kids who enroll as LDS students and decide to leave the Church, right?

Luke Ashworth got to stay at school and nothing bad happened right? It's a stupid policy, like something out of Islam.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I understand what you're saying JL but surely you don't think BYU is correct in kicking out kids who enroll as LDS students and decide to leave the Church, right?

Luke Ashworth got to stay at school and nothing bad happened right? It's a stupid policy, like something out of Islam.

Islam? Good grief, are you serious?

I wish they would be especially lenient of kids that are close to graduation (and I think in most cases they are), but it is a rational and defensible policy. The argument these folks are making is that we allow non-members in, therefore we should allow non-believing LDS kids to stay in school. But those non-LDS kids were allowed under a different set of conditions and under a different agreement. BYU reserves a small set of slots for non-LDS kids, but the vast majority of slots are reserved for kids that are prepared and willing to have the full BYU experience. That experience includes participation in student wards and attending church services and participating in other faith-based courses and activities. That is a perfectly legitimate strategy for a church-sponsored university and it is supported by the accreditation agency. If students admitted under those conditions later decide they want to disengage from the church, that is fine, but they are occupying a very highly-coveted slot that is mostly funded by tithing money. It is not fair to all the bright and qualified students who would give anything to attend BYU, to allow someone to remain at BYU under those conditions. BYU has every right to decide what kind of conditions to impose on the students in terms of admission and yearly continuation. It is a private university.

If you want to make one of those dumb consistency arguments, you could say that BYU does in fact treat these students the same way they treat non-members: the vast majority of them can't attend BYU.

[SoonerCoug]

Lebowski is pretending he is a lawyer. HA.

I don't think most would question whether BYU has the legal right to do all sorts of stupid things.

BYU has the legal right to kick people out of school for almost any reason.

BYU has the legal right to discriminate based on religion.

BYU has the legal right to be as crazy as BYU wants to be.

But kicking students out for changing religions is not compatible with academic freedom on any level. BYU should lose its accreditation. BYU does not behave as a legitimate university should behave. No university should use student underwear decisions as a metric for worthiness to attend class. This goes far beyond academic freedom, when you think about it. It's about controlling your underwear. I'm not going to use the word cult, because that would make me sound like an ex-mo. But it's certainly creepy.

Lebowski, do you wear your garments day and night? Just checking.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lebowski is pretending he is a lawyer. HA.

I don't think most would question whether BYU has the legal right to do all sorts of stupid things.

BYU has the legal right to kick people out of school for almost any reason.

BYU has the legal right to discriminate based on religion.

BYU has the legal right to be as crazy as BYU wants to be.

But kicking students out for changing religions is not compatible with academic freedom on any level. BYU should lose its accreditation. BYU does not behave as a legitimate university should behave. No university should use underwear decisions as a metric for worthiness to attend the school. This goes far beyond academic freedom, when you think about it. It's about controlling your underwear.

Ha. There you go. It's all about underwear. Great argument!

[Jeff Lebowski]

But kicking students out for changing religions is not compatible with academic freedom on any level. BYU should lose its accreditation. BYU does not behave as a legitimate university should behave. No university should use student underwear decisions as a metric for worthiness to attend class. This goes far beyond academic freedom, when you think about it. It's about controlling your underwear. I'm not going to use the word cult, because that would make me sound like an ex-mo. But it's certainly creepy.

Well done.

Lebowski, do you wear your garments day and night? Just checking.

I am posting in my G's right now!

[Northwestcoug]

If you want to make one of those dumb consistency arguments, you could say that BYU does in fact treat these students the same way they treat non-members: the vast majority of them can't attend BYU.

I think the consistency argument they are making is that BYU encourages freedom of choice for non-member students who decide to join the church, but punishes those who do the reverse.

I agree that private institutions should have broad leeway with acceptance and rejection policies. But it still looks bad when BYU kicks out students who make decisions based on their integrity.

[Non Sequitur]

Islam? Good grief, are you serious?

I wish they would be especially lenient of kids that are close to graduation (and I think in most cases they are), but it is a rational and defensible policy. The argument these folks are making is that we allow non-members in, therefore we should allow non-believing LDS kids to stay in school. But those non-LDS kids were allowed under a different set of conditions and under a different agreement. BYU reserves a small set of slots for non-LDS kids, but the vast majority of slots are reserved for kids that are prepared and willing to have the full BYU experience. That experience includes participation in student wards and attending church services and participating in other faith-based courses and activities. That is a perfectly legitimate strategy for a church-sponsored university and it is supported by the accreditation agency. If students admitted under those conditions later decide they want to disengage from the church, that is fine, but they are occupying a very highly-coveted slot that is mostly funded by tithing money. It is not fair to all the bright and qualified students who would give anything to attend BYU, to allow someone to remain at BYU under those conditions. BYU has every right to decide what kind of conditions to impose on the students in terms of admission and yearly continuation. It is a private university.

If you want to make one of those dumb consistency arguments, you could say that BYU does in fact treat these students the same way they treat non-members: the vast majority of them can't attend BYU.

BYU needs to decide whether it wants to be an academic institution or a religious institution. If you want to be a student at BYU there are certain hoops you need to jump through, and if you want to be an accredited university there are also hoops you need to jump through. I have no problem with people challenging BYU's accreditation.

[SoonerCoug]

BYU needs to decide whether it wants to be an academic institution or a religious institution. If you want to be a student at BYU there are certain hoops you need to jump through, and if you want to be an accredited university there are also hoops you need to jump through. I have no problem with people challenging BYU's accreditation.

Best post of 2015.

So true.

Can't have it both ways.

[SoonerCoug]

I am posting in my G's right now!

Worst post of 2015.

[falafel]

Lebowski is pretending he is a lawyer. HA.

I don't think most would question whether BYU has the legal right to do all sorts of stupid things.

BYU has the legal right to kick people out of school for almost any reason.

BYU has the legal right to discriminate based on religion.

BYU has the legal right to be as crazy as BYU wants to be.

But kicking students out for changing religions is not compatible with academic freedom on any level. BYU should lose its accreditation. BYU does not behave as a legitimate university should behave. No university should use student underwear decisions as a metric for worthiness to attend class. This goes far beyond academic freedom, when you think about it. It's about controlling your underwear. I'm not going to use the word cult, because that would make me sound like an ex-mo. But it's certainly creepy.

Lebowski, do you wear your garments day and night? Just checking.

Sooner pretending to be a worse lawyer.