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  • The Grammar Thread (Click here Donuthole)

    This thread is for asking grammar questions and correspondance questions that stump you. Smart people will answer.

    Here is one: how do you refer to the action of carbon copying in business correspondence? For example, "I've taken the liberty of cc'ing John Public on this email, as he is tasked with overseeing resources in this area."

    cc:ing?

    I hate to use the term "carbon copying" because, well, it's not carbon anymore, is it?

    Should I just say "I've taken the liberty of copying John Public on this email...?" But that's not exactly precise because it implies that I will send the copy to John after sending the original email. But I am copying him at the same time as the original email.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
    I hate to use the term "carbon copying" because, well, it's not carbon anymore, is it?
    Ha. If you are going to use that logic, there is a huge set of words in the English language that are going to be off limits to you.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
      This thread is for asking grammar questions and correspondance questions that stump you. Smart people will answer.

      Here is one: how do you refer to the action of carbon copying in business correspondence? For example, "I've taken the liberty of cc'ing John Public on this email, as he is tasked with overseeing resources in this area."

      cc:ing?

      I hate to use the term "carbon copying" because, well, it's not carbon anymore, is it?

      Should I just say "I've taken the liberty of copying John Public on this email...?" But that's not exactly precise because it implies that I will send the copy to John after sending the original email. But I am copying him at the same time as the original email.
      Is the bolded a prediction or a demand?

      I would say "copying".

      I would also not say "taken the liberty", but that is more a stylistic preference than a grammatical rule.

      Qualifications: BA in English who still makes grammatical mistakes frequently

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        Ha. If you are going to use that logic, there is a huge set of words in the English language that are going to be off limits to you.
        Yes. I wouldn't say "carbon copying" not because it is archaic, but because it sounds stupid.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post
          Is the bolded a prediction or a demand?

          I would say "copying".

          I would also not say "taken the liberty", but that is more a stylistic preference than a grammatical rule.

          Qualifications: BA in English who still makes grammatical mistakes frequently
          Ain't nobody gonna take my liberty... 'merica!
          I'm your huckleberry.


          "I love pulling the bone. Really though, what guy doesn't?" - CJF

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
            This thread is for asking grammar questions and correspondance questions that stump you. Smart people will answer.

            Here is one: how do you refer to the action of carbon copying in business correspondence? For example, "I've taken the liberty of cc'ing John Public on this email, as he is tasked with overseeing resources in this area."

            cc:ing?

            I hate to use the term "carbon copying" because, well, it's not carbon anymore, is it?

            Should I just say "I've taken the liberty of copying John Public on this email...?" But that's not exactly precise because it implies that I will send the copy to John after sending the original email. But I am copying him at the same time as the original email.
            I don't follow the bolded part. I don't think that that saying you have copied someone on an email conveys the message that you will send a copy to John after sending the original email. To me it conveys the exact message you are hoping to convey that John has been included on the cc line.

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            • #7
              Why does a BA in English give someone bona fides in grammar? Can I infer that in order to graduate in English a student must take grammar courses? I thought English majors spent their time reading literature, not necessarily studying rules of grammar.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by imanihonjin View Post
                I don't follow the bolded part. I don't think that that saying you have copied someone on an email conveys the message that you will send a copy to John after sending the original email. To me it conveys the exact message you are hoping to convey that John has been included on the cc line.
                Agree.

                And I think I would just type "cc'ing".
                Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by imanihonjin View Post
                  I don't follow the bolded part. I don't think that that saying you have copied someone on an email conveys the message that you will send a copy to John after sending the original email. To me it conveys the exact message you are hoping to convey that John has been included on the cc line.
                  I agree with that, but even if it did convey what she thinks it does, why does it matter? Whether John sees it in a separate e-mail or cc'd in the same e-mail, he's going to be seeing the same message regardless. Go with copying, Katy.

                  And don't say "taken the liberty". That sounds stupid.
                  I'm like LeBron James.
                  -mpfunk

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                  • #10
                    Actually, I've found that attorneys are generally better at grammar than english majors. The non-litigators, of course.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TripletDaddy View Post
                      Why does a BA in English give someone bona fides in grammar? Can I infer that in order to graduate in English a student must take grammar courses? I thought English majors spent their time reading literature, not necessarily studying rules of grammar.
                      We had to take exactly one grammar course, so I have 3 credit hours of additional bona fides than anyone else. Except those that also took a grammar course or something. It was actually during the grammar course that I fully realized that I maybe didn't fit in as an English major. Everyone else in the class hated it, and a lot of people struggled. I loved it, and had a 100% average until the final, where I got a 98% or something. It was much more logical and left-brained than pretty much any other English class. That probably explains why I am one of the few people in my graduating class who has spent his career in data/analytics/strategy.

                      Oh, and this probably should go in the liberal arts celebration thread, but while the majority of classes required for a traditional BA in English are literature-based, there are also a few in things like The History of English and language structure and grammar. I would say that around 80% of my English classes were literature-focused.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                        Actually, I've found that attorneys are generally better at grammar than english majors. The non-litigators, of course.
                        anyone that went to law school has exposure to the Bluebook as well as the CMS (usually). If those students participated in a journal, then they would have extensive (two years) editing and reviewing experience based upon those same rules. I can see a rationale behind a law school graduate claiming some sort of grammatical acumen. An English major, to my knowledge, does absolutely none of that and would have no real practical knowledge of the rules of grammar beyond that of any other major (Elementary Education, Physical Therapy, Communications (lol!)).

                        Also, why exclude litigators? Their career relies heavily upon the ability to write persuasively and accurately. In a very real sense, they write for a living.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Clark Addison View Post
                          We had to take exactly one grammar course, so I have 3 credit hours of additional bona fides than anyone else.
                          lol. This sentence really proves my point on multiple levels.
                          Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Katy Lied View Post
                            Actually, I've found that attorneys are generally better at grammar than english majors. The non-litigators, of course.
                            I don't necessarily disagree, because of what I said before. Most English majors hate their grammar course. If you are talking people who get an MA or PhD, it is a different story. Having said that, English majors write about 5 times as many words as your average college grad, and are graded on how well they write, including their grammar. So most of them have very good instinctual grammar; they just may not know why things are the way they are.

                            You can trust me, though, because I am an outlier, and I have a lot of family members who are attorneys.

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                            • #15
                              I think Katy Lied should identify the "smart" people before we get too far along in this thread. We could use Levin's list (DDD, YOhio, Lebowski, and Pac) despite its over-inclusiveness.

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