Question for PAC, YOhio, JLeb, DDD, and other smart-thinking folks

[Levin]

This is a question for PAC, YOhio, JeffLebowski, DDD, KatyLied, SteelBlue, Bluegoose, Creekster, and other sane, smart-thinking believers. The asinine -- you know who you are (Clack and his gray text, for example) -- this thread is not for you.

With some Church history issues that push other hard-thinking people away, why do you stay? What is the spiritual thread that keeps you tied to the Church? Do you believe it is the source of saving ordinances? Is it the Book of Mormon, and your belief that it is from God? Sorry if this is too personal of a question, but I sincerely am interested in your answers. So often people point out the issues, and loudmouths spout why they leave and mock the Church, but there are a lot of people on here I respect who choose to stay and believe, and I'm curious why that is?

Not sure if I'd put myself in your smart-thinking category, but I stay for a pretty simple reason: I've felt the spirit strongly when studying the Book of Mormon, and I can't read the book with a sincere heart without feeling peace, a presence of the divine, and feeling closer to Christ. I strongly disagree with Joseph Smith's actions wrt polygamy, BY's racism, and other critical flaws in the Church and its history (and even its doctrine), but there is a spiritual tie that I can't deny.

If you choose to stay for purely cultural reasons -- the Church makes you happy; it produces fantastic people; it gives you opportunities to serve -- that's great, but that's not really what I'm asking. It's more if you really believe despite the flaws: why is that?

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I'm trying to figure out if I am welcome in this thread.

[SCcoug]

I'm trying to figure out if I am welcome in this thread.

and other sane, smart-thinking believers

I didn't make the cut either.

[MarkGrace]

I'm trying to figure out if I am welcome in this thread.

This thread is very declasse. Typical Levin, and I expect his next post will be a realization that he's an ass and he'll try to shake this off with a joke. And we wonder why more women don't post here.

[Commando]

Why are you asking questions to which you already know the answer- to troll or are you being rhetorical?

[dabrockster]

I know I didn't make the cut....

[wuapinmon]

I was a jerk until I got a little religion in my life. It made me have an external reason to want to be a better man. I'm not as religious as I used to be, but the imprint was left on me and changed me for the better. It's not the only way to be good, but it was a way that worked for me, and I'm glad I went down that road, even if I no longer trod it. At this point I think I'm more of a cultural Mormon. My life is better since I joined the Church; I remember what it was like without it. But, my wife and I do not have bipolar/generalized anxiety disorder, we have a firm morality we live by, and I know that my kids' lives will be nothing like the yo-yo life I lived growing up, never knowing if my loving parents would come home from work or my mentally-ill ones. The question I struggle with now is, "Do my children need this in their lives for reasons I don't realize, or am I baptizing them into an institution that they'll someday regret having been a part of, the way I'm starting to feel?"

I stick around for my kids. I don't want them to experience my childhood redux.

[wuapinmon]

I'm trying to figure out if I am welcome in this thread.

You're waaaaay smarter than you give yourself credit for. I see you as a peer. And you have a beard. And you're not a jerk. And I have a banana luggage tag on my camera bag.

[YOhio]

I'm not ignoring you Levin, but I'm going to wait until PAC answers before I should go the serious route or just make jokes.

[Levin]

I was a jerk until I got a little religion in my life. It made me have an external reason to want to be a better man. I'm not as religious as I used to be, but the imprint was left on me and changed me for the better. It's not the only way to be good, but it was a way that worked for me, and I'm glad I went down that road, even if I no longer trod it. At this point I think I'm more of a cultural Mormon. My life is better since I joined the Church; I remember what it was like without it. But, my wife and I do not have bipolar/generalized anxiety disorder, we have a firm morality we live by, and I know that my kids' lives will be nothing like the yo-yo life I lived growing up, never knowing if my loving parents would come home from work or my mentally-ill ones. The question I struggle with now is, "Do my children need this in their lives for reasons I don't realize, or am I baptizing them into an institution that they'll someday regret having been a part of, the way I'm starting to feel?"

I stick around for my kids. I don't want them to experience my childhood redux.

Thanks for your response.

[Levin]

You're waaaaay smarter than you give yourself credit for. I see you as a peer. And you have a beard. And you're not a jerk. And I have a banana luggage tag on my camera bag.

Those are the two ways this could go! And given the wit on this board, the joke route wouldn't be a complete loss.

[byu71]

I didn't make the cut. JL's vicious assaults on me have taken their toll.

[Blueintheface]

doublefacepalm.jpg

[Levin]

Why are you asking questions to which you already know the answer- to troll or are you being rhetorical?

I actually don't know the answers. I answered sincerely, and so I don't know why this would come off as trolling.

My answer essentially is: God works through deeply imperfect humans and organizations. People judge God's servants especially harshly because they are held to a higher standard. And people have the natural question: if God's servant, then he/she should only do godly things. If God's Church, then it should not get big things wrong (like racism) -- small things, organizational flaws, are all understandable -- but big things involving sex and race, it should get those right. But some people see the LDS Church as having gotten big things wrong, and yet they stay. For the sincere, I'm very curious why. Maybe they can contextualize polygamy and say it wasn't "wrong" (harder to do with blacks and the priesthood)? Maybe they view it as wrong, but a misstep God let happen? These are simple questions. But fundamental, IMO.

[Blueintheface]

I actually don't know the answers. I answered sincerely, and so I don't know why this would come off as trolling.

My answer essentially is: God works through deeply imperfect humans and organizations. People judge God's servants especially harshly because they are held to a higher standard. And people have the natural question: if God's servant, then he/she should only do godly things. If God's Church, then it should not get big things wrong (like racism) -- small things, organizational flaws, are all understandable -- but big things involving sex and race, it should get those right. But some people see the LDS Church as having gotten big things wrong, and yet they stay. For the sincere, I'm very curious why. Maybe they can contextualize polygamy and say it wasn't "wrong" (harder to do with blacks and the priesthood)? Maybe they view it as wrong, but a misstep God let happen? These are simple questions. But fundamental, IMO.

Some would suggest this thread is in response to your own doubts. Some would...I personally don't give a shit.