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Thread: What's wrong with Texas?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I am not sure what the context of this is but slavery was actually, in fact, more of a secondary issue for causing the civil war. The chief issues were economic issues and states' rights. Most people believe the civil war was totally over the moral issue of slavery.

    See, for example:

    http://americanhistory.about.com/od/..._civil_war.htm

    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...the-civil-war/
    Your second link doesn't support your thesis. From the link:

    A key issue was states' rights.

    The Southern states wanted to assert their authority over the federal government so they could abolish federal laws they didn't support, especially laws interfering with the South's right to keep slaves and take them wherever they wished.
    That's the reason the states' rights argument is so dumb. They wanted to preserve the right to own slaves!

    And sure you can find plenty of links supporting the states' rights argument. They are all wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ong/?tid=sm_fb

    Perhaps most perniciously, neo-Confederates now claim that the South seceded for states’ rights. When each state left the Union, its leaders made clear that they were seceding because they were for slavery and against states’ rights. In its “Declaration Of The Causes Which Impel The State Of Texas To Secede From The Federal Union,” for example, the secession convention of Texas listed the states that had offended them: Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa. These states had in fact exercised states’ rights by passing laws that interfered with the federal government’s attempts to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act. Some also no longer let slaveowners “transit” through their states with their slaves.…
    Teaching or implying that the Confederate states seceded for states’ rights is not accurate history. It is white, Confederate-apologist history. It bends — even breaks — the facts of what happened.
    Across the country, removing slavery from its central role in prompting the Civil War marginalizes African Americans and makes us all stupid. De-Confederatizing the United States won’t end white supremacy, but it will be a momentous step in that direction.
    Last edited by Jeff Lebowski; 07-07-2015 at 11:32 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post

    This Fall, Texas schools will teach students that Moses played a bigger role in inspiring the Constitution...
    What the fuck?
    OK, here is what the textbook apparently states about Moses "inspiring the constitution":

    “Moses helped establish a legal system, including the Ten Commandments, to govern his people. Similarly, the founders of the United States wrote the Constitution and established a system of laws to govern Americans."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...stitution.html

    It doesn't say anything about Moses inspiring the constitution. Where do you get this bullsh*t news from?

    It could be worse... I saw lots of sh*t for news articles claiming that the textbook said that Moses was actually an author of the constitution while searching for some news article that actually stated was was written.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Your second link doesn't support your thesis. From the link:



    That's the reason the states' rights argument is so dumb. They wanted to preserve the right to own slaves!

    And sure you can find plenty of links supporting the states' rights argument. They are all wrong.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ong/?tid=sm_fb
    Both the North and South knew that slavery was morally wrong. It is just like most know that using drones to drop bombs on children is morally wrong (but the United States under even Obama's command continues to do it any way). The South was economically dependent on slavery at the time. The North's economy had very little, if any, dependence on slavery. If the North's economy depended on slavery I am sure their opinion would have changed.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
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  4. #64
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    OK, here is what the textbook apparently states about Moses "inspiring the constitution":


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...stitution.html

    It doesn't say anything about Moses inspiring the constitution. Where do you get this bullsh*t news from?

    It could be worse... I saw lots of sh*t for news articles claiming that the textbook said that Moses was actually an author of the constitution while searching for some news article that actually stated was was written.
    You are nitpicking over wording in an attempt to create a red herring. The objective of that red herring of course is to avoid the main topic of the essay: whitewashing the primary cause of the civil war.

    The Texas Board of Education has always been nutty.
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  5. #65
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    seems like the board has seen a wave of federalism arguments over the past couple of weeks, none of which have been persuasive
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    You are nitpicking over wording in an attempt to create a red herring. The objective of that red herring of course is to avoid the main topic of the essay: whitewashing the primary cause of the civil war.

    The Texas Board of Education has always been nutty.
    The article claims that "Moses played a bigger role in inspiring the Constitution than slavery did in starting the Civil War" when the actual textbook doesn't even state that Moses inspired anything. It doesn't give any quotes from the textbook to back that claim. The article is clearly poorly written.

    I think most boards of education look nutty given all the pressure they get from the real nuts, the parents. Nutty parents exist in every state.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  7. #67
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    The article claims that "Moses played a bigger role in inspiring the Constitution than slavery did in starting the Civil War" when the actual textbook doesn't even state that Moses inspired anything. It doesn't give any quotes from the textbook to back that claim. The article is clearly poorly written.
    Here you go, buddy. An even more detailed article and not a single mention of that Moses red herring. Enjoy.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...ce1_story.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I think most boards of education look nutty given all the pressure they get from the real nuts, the parents. Nutty parents exist in every state.
    Come on. Now you are being flat out disingenuous. Anyone who knows anything about Texas knows about the infamous Texas Board of Education and the impact they have on US textbooks. From the above article:

    Texas’s social studies standards are more politicized than any other state, said Jeremy A. Stern, a historian who reviewed state standards for the conservative-leaning Thomas B. Fordham Institute in 2011. He gave Texas’s standards a D and wrote that the board was “molding the telling of the past to justify its current views.”
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  8. #68
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    This is funny/kind of scary. A shocking number of Texas Tech college students do not know who won the Civil War.

    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Here you go, buddy. An even more detailed article and not a single mention of that Moses red herring. Enjoy.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...ce1_story.html
    No actual text from the textbook?!?

    It is hard to find anything about what the actual textbook says or doesn't say. Here is an article about a textbook that was being used in Massachusetts... Apparently it was "whitewashing" slavery as well:

    Massachusetts textbook removed for downplaying slavery
    [...]
    The 2003 edition of “Harcourt Horizons: United States History” contains this line: “Slaves were treated well or cruelly, depending on their owners. Some planters took pride in being fair and kind to their slaves.”
    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mass-text...laying-slavery

    We all know that slave owners always raped and beat their slaves every day including these SoBs...

    Of the first five presidents, four owned slaves. All four of these owned slaves while they were president.


    Of the next five presidents (#6-10), four owned slaves. Only two of them owned slaves while they were president.


    Of the next five presidents (#11-15), two owned slaves. Both of these two owned slaves while they were president.


    Of the next three presidents (#16-18) two owned slaves. neither of them owned slaves while serving as president.


    The last president to own slaves while in office was the twelfth president, Zachary Taylor (1849-1850).


    The last president to own slaves at all was the eighteenth president, Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877).


    So twelve of our presidents owned slaves and eight of them owned slaves while serving as president.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  10. #70
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    No actual text from the textbook?!?

    It is hard to find anything about what the actual textbook says or doesn't say. Here is an article about a textbook that was being used in Massachusetts... Apparently it was "whitewashing" slavery as well:


    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mass-text...laying-slavery

    We all know that slave owners always raped and beat their slaves every day including these SoBs...
    Aha... The old "tu quoque" logical fallacy.

    By the way, the article you linked contained this quote:

    And this year in Texas, textbooks have come under fire for suggesting Jim Crow era segregation wasn’t all that bad, while editorializing about the tax code.

    Earlier this month, 43 textbooks manufactured in Texas were subject to review by the state’s Board of Education. According to many impartial observers, the books were riddled with errors and overtly Christian rhetoric.


    “Unfortunately, if that’s what’s students are going to be learning in Texas, students around the country will be learning it soon enough,” said one critic of the textbooks, Dan Quinn of the watchdog group Texas Freedom Network (TFN).
    I suppose it would be tough to find an article about bad textbooks that didn't mention Texas. Heh.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This is funny/kind of scary. A shocking number of Texas Tech college students do not know who won the Civil War.
    LOL. Texas Tech. Reminds me of Ms. Utah... telling us we need to "create education better":

    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This is funny/kind of scary. A shocking number of Texas Tech college students do not know who won the Civil War.

    Shocking!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I am not sure what the context of this is but slavery was actually, in fact, more of a secondary issue for causing the civil war. The chief issues were economic issues and states' rights. Most people believe the civil war was totally over the moral issue of slavery.

    See, for example:

    http://americanhistory.about.com/od/..._civil_war.htm

    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetect...the-civil-war/



    What the fuck?
    I've been reading several books on the Civil War in preparation for a trip later this month and it's evident slavery wasn't the primary reason, at least not in the eyes of most Northerners, but rather preservation of the Union. But I'm still trying to figure out the "states rights" argument for the South. I know that was stated to be the purpose from the Southern perspective, but what "rights" were they fighting for other than slavery? That's not a rhetorical question; I really don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I've been reading several books on the Civil War in preparation for a trip later this month and it's evident slavery wasn't the primary reason, at least not in the eyes of most Northerners, but rather preservation of the Union. But I'm still trying to figure out the "states rights" argument for the South. I know that was stated to be the purpose from the Southern perspective, but what "rights" were they fighting for other than slavery? That's not a rhetorical question; I really don't know.
    From the Northern perspective, it was more a series of reactions than proactive decisions. When the southern states seceded, the government refused to recognize the legitimacy of the rebellion. (Secession was driven largely by the wealthy slaveholders in the south. Popular support came after shots were fired, but support for secession was sketchy at first.) The question then arose regarding federal military assets in the south. The south ordered them to leave and they refused and then shots were fired at Sumter. Even at that point, nobody on either side ever imagined the scale of loss (blood and treasure) coming in the next four years. After Sumter and before the Battle of Bull Run, politicians in the North predicted that the war would be over in days or weeks and you would be able to wipe up all of the blood that would be shed with a single handkerchief. In other wards, the war started as a series of escalating events and the North was reacting for the most part. By the end of the war, ending slavery was used a justification for the war in the North and that was partly because the cost was so great that they needed a noble cause to keep people engaged, but it wasn’t universally viewed that way at the start.

    From the Southern perspective, you need to separate secession from the war. Secession led to the war, so the real question is why did they secede? If you read the articles of secession for each state, there is no question it was about slavery. The term “states rights” was primarily invented after the war by confederate apologists. It is code for "the right to own and enslave blacks”.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    From the Northern perspective, it was more a series of reactions than proactive decisions. When the southern states seceded, the government refused to recognize the legitimacy of the rebellion. (Secession was driven largely by the wealthy slaveholders in the south. Popular support came after shots were fired, but support for secession was sketchy at first.) The question then arose regarding federal military assets in the south. The south ordered them to leave and they refused and then shots were fired at Sumter. Even at that point, nobody on either side ever imagined the scale of loss (blood and treasure) coming in the next four years. After Sumter and before the Battle of Bull Run, politicians in the North predicted that the war would be over in days or weeks and you would be able to wipe up all of the blood that would be shed with a single handkerchief. In other wards, the war started as a series of escalating events and the North was reacting for the most part. By the end of the war, ending slavery was used a justification for the war in the North and that was partly because the cost was so great that they needed a noble cause to keep people engaged, but it wasn’t universally viewed that way at the start.

    From the Southern perspective, you need to separate secession from the war. Secession led to the war, so the real question is why did they secede? If you read the articles of secession for each state, there is no question it was about slavery. The term “states rights” was primarily invented after the war by confederate apologists. It is code for "the right to own and enslave blacks”.
    I wonder if Moses inspired the states' articles of secession as well given the big role he played in things.
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  16. #76
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    Tariffs, not slavery, precipitated the American Civil War

    Arthur Hirsch's recent article about the Battle of Gettysburg reveals a disturbing ignorance of the political dynamics that brought this nation to a war that 150 years later remains the most cataclysmic event in our history ("A defining day relived," July 2).


    It accepts the shallow but unchallenged premise that the Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.

    The war resulted from causes unrelated to slavery and abolition. It was entirely a consequence of the Southern states' secession, which occurred despite the undeniable fact that the slave states could not have hoped for better protection of slavery than that afforded by the U. S. Constitution — provided they remained in the Union.


    Both Lincoln and the slaveholders well knew in 1860 that a constitutional amendment ending slavery would never be mathematically feasible. But Lincoln further understood that the South was gravitating toward secession as the remedy for a different grievance altogether: The egregiously inequitable effects of a U. S. protective tariff that provided 90 percent of federal revenue.


    Foreign governments retaliated for it with tariffs of their own, and payment of those overseas levies represented the cost to Americans of their U. S. government. Southerners were generating two-thirds of U. S. exports, and also bearing two-thirds of the retaliatory tariffs abroad.


    The result was that that the 18.5 percent of America's citizens who lived in the South were saddled with three times their proportionate share of the federal government's costs.
    [...]
    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...tion-secession
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  17. #77
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Ha. That's funny, Uncle Ted. You searched and found a letter to the editor written by a confederate apologist. Some creative writing there, with a remarkable closing statement:

    ... no Gettysburg visitor should ever be led to believe that the Civil War objective of the U.S. was anything other than preservation of its protective tariff in the Old South.
    Yowza.

    Since this is a thread about Texas, how about if we make this very simple and just look at the Texas declaration of secession? It isn't very long. Here is a link:

    https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/aboutt.../2feb1861.html

    A few excerpts. First of all, Texas objects to several Northern states not obeying federal law relative to the Fugitive Slave Act:

    The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holdings States in their domestic institutions--a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

    ...

    They have proclaimed, and at the ballot box sustained, the revolutionary doctrine that there is a "higher law" than the constitution and laws of our Federal Union, and virtually that they will disregard their oaths and trample upon our rights.

    They have for years past encouraged and sustained lawless organizations to steal our slaves and prevent their recapture, and have repeatedly murdered Southern citizens while lawfully seeking their rendition.
    Ha. Texas secedes because it is tired of Northern states exercising states' rights! (can we get an irony ruling?)

    And those damned yankees don't like slavery - a divine and beneficent institution!

    In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.
    Closing argument based on an appeal to white supremacy:

    We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

    That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.
    In other words, pretty much the entire document references slavery as the reason for secession. Not a single reference to tariffs.
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  18. #78
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Ha. That's funny, Uncle Ted. You searched and found a letter to the editor written by a confederate apologist. Some creative writing there, with a remarkable closing statement:



    Yowza.

    Since this is a thread about Texas, how about if we make this very simple and just look at the Texas declaration of secession? It isn't very long. Here is a link:

    https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/aboutt.../2feb1861.html

    A few excerpts. First of all, Texas objects to several Northern states not obeying federal law relative to the Fugitive Slave Act:



    Ha. Texas secedes because it is tired of Northern states exercising states' rights! (can we get an irony ruling?)

    And those damned yankees don't like slavery - a divine and beneficent institution!



    Closing argument based on an appeal to white supremacy:



    In other words, pretty much the entire document references slavery as the reason for secession. Not a single reference to tariffs.
    It was about slavery. Did you read the article in the WA Post about all the mythology about the Confederacy that still persists? I agree with the author that we need to rename all the streets and highways named after racist traitors like Lee and Davis. There shouldn't be any federal money to maintain Confederate monuments.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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  19. #79
    Faith crisis consultant SeattleUte's Avatar
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    I heard this story today, and this made me howl with laughter: "'This is Texas,' Walt says. 'This is a good Republican red state. They don't violate people's rights here. Take that to Chicago, New York, not here.'"

    http://www.npr.org/2015/07/07/420824...y-are-innocent

    There is more evil in Texas than any other state, including Utah.
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    BTW, here are the declaration of causes for seceding states for South Carolina, Mississippi, and Georgia (in addition to Texas).

    http://www.civilwarcauses.org/reasons.htm

    Fascinating reading. Slavery is clearly the main issue in every case, but each state specifically references Northern states refusing to enforce the fugitive slave laws (exercising states' rights!) as a specific cause. One example:

    In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

    The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due."
    Ha. States' rights, my arse.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  21. #81
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    It was about slavery. Did you read the article in the WA Post about all the mythology about the Confederacy that still persists? I agree with the author that we need to rename all the streets and highways named after racist traitors like Lee and Davis. There shouldn't be any federal money to maintain Confederate monuments.
    Yes, I already posted it here somewhere. This is the article:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ong/?tid=sm_fb
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  22. #82
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    lol @ Uncle Ted and cowboy!
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  23. #83
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    BTW, here are the declaration of causes for seceding states for South Carolina, Mississippi, and Georgia (in addition to Texas).

    http://www.civilwarcauses.org/reasons.htm

    Fascinating reading. Slavery is clearly the main issue in every case, but each state specifically references Northern states refusing to enforce the fugitive slave laws (exercising states' rights!) as a specific cause. One example:



    Ha. States' rights, my arse.
    The main cause was economics...

    How the Cotton Gin Started the Civil War
    [...]
    Before the cotton gin, slavery had been on its way out—farmers realized it was more expensive to maintain slaves, compared to the value of what they could produce. Cotton was a troublesome crop anyway; its fiber could only be separated from the sticky, embedded seeds by hand, a grueling and exhausting process.


    This changed dramatically, of course, with the advent of the cotton gin. Suddenly cotton became a lucrative crop and a major export for the South. However, because of this increased demand, many more slaves were needed to grow cotton and harvest the fields. Slave ownership became a fiery national issue and eventually led to the Civil War.
    [...]
    https://www.asme.org/engineering-top...-the-civil-war

    It is just like seeing all the human rights violations that we see happening all over the world today but there are no wars started because of them. However, if a country threatens our oil supply (i.e. our economics) then a war is started. Of course, folks will point to the human rights violations or some other bullshit as the cause. Yes, slavery was absolutely wrong and is still absolutely wrong. One would think we are past that dark history but I don't see any wars being started over all the slavery (aka. "human trafficking") that is happening today. Where are the wars? We are too busy fighting wars for primarily economic reasons to notice I guess.

    Back to my original point and the article you posted making the following assertions:

    This Fall, Texas schools will teach students that Moses played a bigger role in inspiring the Constitution than slavery did in starting the Civil War.
    I already called this bullshit and found what the textbook actually said about Moses. It doesn't say Moses inspired anything. The shit for an article doesn't provide anything to back this assertion other than opinion. If you have a better quote from the actual textbook that backs the above assertion then please post it.

    It is alarming that 150 years after the Civil War's end children are learning that slavery was, as one Texas board of education member put it in 2010, "a side issue."


    Of course, the author didn't provide any actual quotes from the textbook other than this little snippet:

    They teach that "sectionalism, states' rights and slavery" — carefully ordered to stress the first two and shrug off the last — caused the conflict.
    So in all these state declarations slavery is carefully ordered and listed first, right?
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  24. #84

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    It's a lot easier to become morally outraged about something when money is involved.

    States' rights as a justification for discrimination. Where have I seen that before?
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
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  25. #85
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    It is just like seeing all the human rights violations that we see happening all over the world today but there are no wars started because of them. However, if a country threatens our oil supply (i.e. our economics) then a war is started. Of course, folks will point to the human rights violations or some other bullshit as the cause. Yes, slavery was absolutely wrong and is still absolutely wrong. One would think we are past that dark history but I don't see any wars being started over all the slavery (aka. "human trafficking") that is happening today. Where are the wars? We are too busy fighting wars for primarily economic reasons to notice I guess.
    What on earth is your point with that? Yes, slavery was clearly an economic issue for the south. Nobody on either side ever denied that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Back to my original point and the article you posted making the following assertions:

    I already called this bullshit and found what the textbook actually said about Moses. It doesn't say Moses inspired anything. The shit for an article doesn't provide anything to back this assertion other than opinion. If you have a better quote from the actual textbook that backs the above assertion then please post it.

    Of course, the author didn't provide any actual quotes from the textbook other than this little snippet:

    So in all these state declarations slavery is carefully ordered and listed first, right?
    That's funny that you keep going back to that and also funny that you are sure there is only one comment about Moses because that is all you found in your google search. You have proven a negative without actually seeing the book! Congrats.

    Actually, here is a more detailed run-down of the issues in the new textbooks.

    http://wonkette.com/560133/new-texas...ry-segregation

    I especially like that wacky cartoon and interactive worksheet where the space aliens get affirmative action benefits.



    You will notice more material on Moses (among other problems). If you want a more detailed analysis, check out the executive summary of the Texas Freedom Network that had a panel of college profs review the textbooks:

    http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/FI...pdf?docID=4625

    Various Moses references discussed on pages 9-11.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
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  26. #86
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    lol @ Uncle Ted and cowboy!
    I actually think Lebowski is the only one not in on the joke here...
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  27. #87
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    You will notice more material on Moses (among other problems). If you want a more detailed analysis, check out the executive summary of the Texas Freedom Network that had a panel of college profs review the textbooks:

    http://www.tfn.org/site/DocServer/FI...pdf?docID=4625

    Various Moses references discussed on pages 9-11.
    FINALLY! You find something that is worth reading. Why didn't your original shit for an article you posted just simply reference this?

    From the above document...

    First, a clarification: all three of these publishers provide thorough and accurate coverage of slavery in their products. There is no attempt to hide the issue in the run up to the Civil War.
    As for the moses material it looks like the review has, as you like to put it, a lot of nitpicking over words.

    For example:

    Further, stating that “Moses handed down God’s Ten Commandments” is very close to endorsing a religious claim. Stating, for instance, that “Jews and Christians believe that Moses handed down God’s Ten Commandments” would have been more acceptable. Without this qualification, the text seems to endorse the truth of these biblical claims.
    Well, ok. The authors should have said "Jews and Christians believe that". Of course, I am sure there is a lot of things in history books that should have this qualification showing opinion. That article you posted could have used a lot of this.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "I never preached in Texas, but I have preached in places as wicked..." -Brigham Young.
    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  28. #88
    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I actually think Lebowski is the only one not in on the joke here...
    lol @ uncle Ted, cowboy, and jeff lebowski!
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  29. #89
    Senior Member byu71's Avatar
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    LOL a fight breaks out between JL, DDD and SU (the clique) vs Cowboy and Tex. I am too old to fight, but I know who my money is on.

  30. #90
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    FINALLY! You find something that is worth reading. Why didn't your original shit for an article you posted just simply reference this?

    From the above document...
    Yes, the textbooks don't deny that slavery existed. They just incorrectly present the root cause for the Civil War. From the next two paragraphs:

    However, the requirement in the curriculum standards that compels coverage of “sectionalism, states’ rights, and slavery” (in that order) as causes of the war leads publishers to these sort of misleading – and even inaccurate – passages.

    They are inaccurate for a simple reason: the concept of “states’ rights” in an abstract sense as a defense of secession did not appear until after the conclusion of the Civil War. Contemporaneous documents and statements by southerners make it plain that slavery was the underlying reason for their action. In their secession ordinances, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas all stated their understanding that slavery had been placed in danger by Lincoln’s election and made that their major theme. Moreover, high officials, such as Confederate President Jefferson Davis and Vice President Alexander H. Stephens, made plain the absolute centrality of protecting slavery as the reason for secession. That point is important for two reasons. One is that both Davis and Stephens revised their positions after the war was over to argue that slavery had not been the issue at all, maintaining instead that it had been about abstract constitutionalism. The other is that these passages, which appear designed to fit the TEKS requirement of considering “states’ rights” as a separate issue, does dovetail with current neo-Confederate ideology, which is deeply false to the historical record.
    Swish.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

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