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Thread: On abortion

  1. #211
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Best take on abortion, IMHO.

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  2. #212
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    Please tell me you also support cheap and easy access to birth control. If you don't, it is nothing more than moralizing without actually addressing the core issue.
    Yes, I fully support something that already exists.

    Let's not sugar coat what happens when a fetus is aborted. And please, no more emotional pleas for men to tell their wonderful abortion stories. It's not wonderful, and men don't have a choice in the matter, so why celebrate that?
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  3. #213
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    Best take on abortion, IMHO.

    So awesome.

    And very thoughtful of you to include the Spanish subtitles so wap could understand the content. But I wonder if the jokes really translate over.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  4. #214

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    Does anyone really believe R v. W will be overturned? Regardless of who replaces Kennedy, I can't see it being undone. Roberts has proven he doesn't want to make waves, and he'd surely vote to keep it. I wouldn't be surprised if if Gorsuch did the same. I can't see it ever being undone.

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  5. #215
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Does anyone really believe R v. W will be overturned? Regardless of who replaces Kennedy, I can't see it being undone. Roberts has proven he doesn't want to make waves, and he'd surely vote to keep it. I wouldn't be surprised if if Gorsuch did the same. I can't see it ever being undone.
    Nope, r v w won’t be overturned and contraception won’t be banned. It’s all leftist fear mongering.

    Apparently Kavanaugh is less conservative than Gorsuch, according to some nytimes scoring mechanism. Kind f funny given the hissy fit some leftists are throwing.
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  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Does anyone really believe R v. W will be overturned? Regardless of who replaces Kennedy, I can't see it being undone. Roberts has proven he doesn't want to make waves, and he'd surely vote to keep it. I wouldn't be surprised if if Gorsuch did the same. I can't see it ever being undone.
    Outright overturned, as in a case arises in 2019 wherein the holding is in effect "Roe v. Wade is now dead letter"? Probably not, but who knows. You just can't understate how poor a decision was Roe-- even defenders of the right to abortion will admit that it is a pathetic piece of work. (In fact, one could argue it has already been overturned; to the extent there is a constitutional right to an abortion, it largely emanates from Planned Parenthood v. Casey, not Roe.) Roe is the classic case of a panel of judges deciding a policy issue better left to the political branches, and it would not be inconsistent with the mantra conservative jurists have been touting for the last three decades to acknowledge that the judicial grant of the right to an abortion was a legal miscarriage.

    But no, public perception of the court still matters (in fact it is all the Court really has), and it doesn't serve anyone's interests to suggest the law changes when a new judge takes the bench. So the action will happen when the court grants and denies certiorari. If a case presents itself as an opportunity to cleanly overturn Roe, they'll turn it down. What they will do instead is pare it back by considering the issues on the fringe, where the right to an abortion is weighed against any number of other legitimate governmental interests, each of which they will find outweighs the right to an abortion without saying outright that the right to an abortion has no weight at all. Roe only gets overturned outright if some circuit court picks up on the cues and decides there's nothing left to Roe and creates a circuit split.
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  7. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy View Post
    Does anyone really believe R v. W will be overturned? Regardless of who replaces Kennedy, I can't see it being undone. Roberts has proven he doesn't want to make waves, and he'd surely vote to keep it. I wouldn't be surprised if if Gorsuch did the same. I can't see it ever being undone.
    I agree, it's unlikely. But not impossible. Both the president and vice-president are on record saying they will work to get it overturned. And I haven't checked in years, but I know it was a platform policy in every RNC election cycle for decades.

    Democrats and independents who hear this continually from the republican side, for decades, will understandably take them at their word. You can't blame them for being at least concerned that it's a possibility.

  8. #218
    Adventurer Walter Sobchak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    So awesome.

    And very thoughtful of you to include the Spanish subtitles so wap could understand the content. But I wonder if the jokes really translate over.
    wuap too busy tilting at windmills. Just yesterday he was bitching about some stupid thing on the FB. He unfriended me over my comment. Sad!
    You're actually pretty funny when you aren't being a complete a-hole....so basically like 5% of the time. --Art Vandelay

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    You furnish the pictures, and I’ll furnish the war. --William Randolph Hearst

  9. #219
    𐐐𐐄𐐢𐐆𐐤𐐝 𐐓𐐅 𐐜 𐐢𐐃𐐡𐐔 Uncle Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Outright overturned, as in a case arises in 2019 wherein the holding is in effect "Roe v. Wade is now dead letter"? Probably not, but who knows. You just can't understate how poor a decision was Roe-- even defenders of the right to abortion will admit that it is a pathetic piece of work. (In fact, one could argue it has already been overturned; to the extent there is a constitutional right to an abortion, it largely emanates from Planned Parenthood v. Casey, not Roe.) Roe is the classic case of a panel of judges deciding a policy issue better left to the political branches, and it would not be inconsistent with the mantra conservative jurists have been touting for the last three decades to acknowledge that the judicial grant of the right to an abortion was a legal miscarriage.

    But no, public perception of the court still matters (in fact it is all the Court really has), and it doesn't serve anyone's interests to suggest the law changes when a new judge takes the bench. So the action will happen when the court grants and denies certiorari. If a case presents itself as an opportunity to cleanly overturn Roe, they'll turn it down. What they will do instead is pare it back by considering the issues on the fringe, where the right to an abortion is weighed against any number of other legitimate governmental interests, each of which they will find outweighs the right to an abortion without saying outright that the right to an abortion has no weight at all. Roe only gets overturned outright if some circuit court picks up on the cues and decides there's nothing left to Roe and creates a circuit split.
    I am not a legal scholar but didn't R vs W come down to some implied right of privacy? If so, can we get the NSA/FBI/CIA to stop listening to all our phone calls?

    Speaking of which, Drumpf's pick for the SCOTUS sided with the spooks for spying on us (i.e., he is no fan of online privacy). Forget abortion, you dumb liberals, this is the real reason you should vote against this pick! I hope Rand votes against him.
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-American View Post
    Outright overturned, as in a case arises in 2019 wherein the holding is in effect "Roe v. Wade is now dead letter"? Probably not, but who knows. You just can't understate how poor a decision was Roe-- even defenders of the right to abortion will admit that it is a pathetic piece of work. (In fact, one could argue it has already been overturned; to the extent there is a constitutional right to an abortion, it largely emanates from Planned Parenthood v. Casey, not Roe.) Roe is the classic case of a panel of judges deciding a policy issue better left to the political branches, and it would not be inconsistent with the mantra conservative jurists have been touting for the last three decades to acknowledge that the judicial grant of the right to an abortion was a legal miscarriage.

    But no, public perception of the court still matters (in fact it is all the Court really has), and it doesn't serve anyone's interests to suggest the law changes when a new judge takes the bench. So the action will happen when the court grants and denies certiorari. If a case presents itself as an opportunity to cleanly overturn Roe, they'll turn it down. What they will do instead is pare it back by considering the issues on the fringe, where the right to an abortion is weighed against any number of other legitimate governmental interests, each of which they will find outweighs the right to an abortion without saying outright that the right to an abortion has no weight at all. Roe only gets overturned outright if some circuit court picks up on the cues and decides there's nothing left to Roe and creates a circuit split.
    I agree that this is how the Supreme Court would act if it is going to "overturn" the precedent. I am doubtful that it will be overturned, given that 24% of the electorate wants an absolute right, and another 57% wants a right that is only slightly limited, the Supreme Court is not about changing simply to accommodate the 16% who want an outright complete ban. I just don't see it. And with Casey around, there is no need to deal with the tortured logic of R. v. W.
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