Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[Topper]

I agree. Russia taking back Crimea is not remotely analogous to Hitler in the Sudetenland -- the way Hillary Clinton and McCain and others have made those comparisons is ridiculous.

Crimea really might just have well have been a part of Russia all along anyway -- the only reason Crimea switched from being part of the Russian SSR to the Ukrainian SSR in 1954 was because under the USSR it made no difference -- like moving from one state to another.

I think some sanctions against Russia and making sure Putin knows this is as far as it goes is all the response that is necessary.

Putin believes he can act with virtual impunity. The economic sanctions are unlikely to deter him. I don't know, if except for wanting the old empire back, if there is a need for Estonia, but would Europe do anything more than complain and pound a few fists? Why should he believe we would ever impose meaningful sanctions against Russia?

[CardiacCoug]

Putin believes he can act with virtual impunity. The economic sanctions are unlikely to deter him. I don't know, if except for wanting the old empire back, if there is a need for Estonia, but would Europe do anything more than complain and pound a few fists? Why should he believe we would ever impose meaningful sanctions against Russia?

Estonia is very, very different from Ukraine. Estonia is part of NATO, right? A Russian invasion of Estonia would almost certainly prompt an opposing military coalition response from NATO.

The Russian people originated around Kiev, Ukraine (look up Kievan Rus). In my two years in major cities in Ukraine, everybody spoke Russian and identified with Russia. Many were born in Russia or had parents born in Russia. I also went to Lithuania and Estonia and it was very different there -- people spoke Russian even worse than the missionary Russian, with a definite, separate, local non-Russian language and culture.

I agree with Kissinger -- it's crazy for the West to think it can succeed long-term in driving a political wedge between Russia and Ukraine.

[Topper]

Estonia is very, very different from Ukraine. Estonia is part of NATO, right? A Russian invasion of Estonia would almost certainly prompt an opposing military coalition response from NATO.

The Russian people originated around Kiev, Ukraine (look up Kievan Rus). In my two years in major cities in Ukraine, everybody spoke Russian and identified with Russia. Many were born in Russia or had parents born in Russia. I also went to Lithuania and Estonia and it was very different there -- people spoke Russian even worse than the missionary Russian, with a definite, separate, local non-Russian language and culture.

I agree with Kissinger -- it's crazy for the West to think it can succeed long-term in driving a political wedge between Russia and Ukraine.

You think citizens of Lviv identify with Russia? They don't and are more likely to identify with Poland or native Ukrainians. The Ukraine is screwed. The East is where the economic might is and the West has nothing.

I disagree that NATO would intervene in Estonia. In fact, if I were Putin, I would keep pushing it and take back of all of the Baltics, Bulgaria and Romania. The West is spineless, without the ability to assert its against an expansionist Russia. I would play economic warfare against Western Europe in terms of natural gas prices and leverage everything to regain world status.

The US would not oppose and would simply pound fists. We have lost our might, and European negotiations and sanctions would have no affect upon me, were I Putin.

[CardiacCoug]

Sure, you get out to Lviv and they dislike Moscow, are mostly Catholic and closer ethnically to Polish people than to Russians.

I seriously doubt that Putin would invade any NATO country. That would be insane.

It's possible that he will try to take parts of eastern Ukraine, probably using the same lie he used in Crimea, that Russian speakers are being threatened.

[Moliere]

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[Blueintheface]

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USUC is gonna be pissed!!!

[USUC]

Probably the most tragic thing about this whole situation is that while Russia and Pro-Russians decry the Keiv "Junta" and Maidan supporters as fascists, it is actually Russia which has turned into a fascist state. Russia, by manipulating the Russian portions of Ukraine, will give rise to more nationalism and provide support for the genuinely extreme portions of the Pro-Ukrainian side. I fear there will be a lot of blood unnecessarily spilled in the country.

[USUC]

A Malaysian commercial airline has crashed in separatist controlled eastern Ukraine. Both side accusing the other of shooting the plane down. Unbelievably tragic.

[BlueK]

Ukraine's newly elected president cleverly jabs back at Putin:

Russia and Ukraine have been locked in a proxy war since Moscow's annexation of the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea in 2014. Giving Russian passports to Ukrainians -- a measure Putin described last week as "purely humanitarian" -- could be seen as a pretext for further Russian meddling in Ukraine.

Zelensky, however, has countered Putin with his own offer to Ukraine's citizens.
"I would not advise the Russian authorities to waste time trying to tempt citizens of Ukraine with Russian passports," he said in a Facebook post late Saturday.

"The difference for Ukraine, in particular, lies in the fact that we, Ukrainians, have freedom of speech, free media and the Internet in our country. Therefore, we know perfectly well what a Russian passport actually provides. This is the right to be arrested for peaceful protest. It is the right not to have free and competitive elections. This is the right to forget about the existence of natural rights and freedoms."

Writing in both Russian and Ukrainian, Zelensky presented Ukraine as a bulwark against the Kremlin's brand of authoritarianism, saying his government will offer Ukrainian citizenship to those opposed to Putin's rule.

"Ukraine will not give up its mission to serve as an example of democracy for the post-Soviet countries," he said. "And part of this mission will be the provision of protection, asylum and Ukrainian citizenship to all who are ready to fight for freedom. We will provide shelter and assistance to everyone -- everyone who is ready to fight side by side with us for our freedom and yours."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/30/europ...tin/index.html

[old_gregg]

hope he enjoys his tea with a little polonium

[BlueK]

hope he enjoys his tea with a little polonium

After which Sarah Huckleberry Sanders can go out there and say, "well, we don't know who did it"

[wuapinmon]

hope he enjoys his tea with a little polonium

He's been building up an immunity to iocaine powder.

[BlueK]

He's been building up an immunity to iocaine powder.

Hopefully also to Russian military grade nerve agents.

[Bo Diddley]

Hopefully also to Russian military grade nerve agents.

Thai stuff has a cumulative effect.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That is such a great response. Love it.

I also agree he is a dead man. Sigh...