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Thread: Official FIFA 2018 Russia World Cup

  1. #151
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    Everything is age until you get to high school. It has been that way for as long as I can remember and I am old.
    See!? They've been screwing us for decades!
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  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    Everything is age until you get to high school. It has been that way for as long as I can remember and I am old.
    http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/us_yout...ation_mandate/

    This is when they split up my son's team that was previously based on school year. I think other Utah clubs were the same at the time, but I could be wrong.
    Last edited by jay santos; 10-11-2017 at 04:57 PM.

  3. #153
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    Lots of good thoughts.

    My observations as to the shortcomings of US Soccer.

    Development. The Club system is a money-maker but not good at identifying and developing the best players to end up on the national team. There has been a slow transition to the Academy teams tied to a MLS team and scholarships for poor kids.

    Style of Play dictated from the top down. In nations that have successful national campaigns the entire U-17, U-20 and U-23 teams adopt the philosophy and style of play so that the national coaches may encourage a style of play and player to be developed. Spain exemplified this for a while and Germany and France are. Brazil didn't need to dictate a philosophy but now notices other nations have surpassed them so that nation needs a system.

    In short, the Hodge-podge approach of the US doesn't work.

    How to fix:

    1. Beef up the Academy system and create many, many more scholarship for low income youth. The pipeline must be full. There is a mistaken belief we aren't getting enough good athletes. BS. We aren't identifying them and retaining them.

    2. Empower the national coaches to set the style and stick to it. Know our strengths and weaknesses. The US does not produce a lot of creative forwards and attacking mids. We produce historically good GKs, sometimes center backs and occasionally wings. We need to adopt a national style which caters to that. Is this a direct or indirect? Do we play from the back? I don't see us having the forwards necessary to use the direct approach, but maybe I'm wrong.

    3. We need to encourage and create opportunities for kids just to play. Play in the backyard and on the school grounds. Why does the US produce the most creative basketball players, because every kid is trying out some new move. I was in Brazil in '14 in Rio. Every person was playing with a soccer ball or futsal on beach. It is a cultural thing. In the Latin communities we see that, but not so much in the non-Latin communities. There need to be efforts to change that.

    Depositing my two cents.
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  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/us_yout...ation_mandate/

    This is when they split up my son's team that was previously based on school year. I think other Utah clubs were the same at the time, but I could be wrong.
    Same thing happened to my daughter's team.
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  5. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    Soccer has done that forever. Youth football around here is the same. Based on age not grade.
    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Been doing that since the 90s in Utah, probably longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flystripper View Post
    Everything is age until you get to high school. It has been that way for as long as I can remember and I am old.
    It was based on age, but they had the age calendar year match the same calendar as the school year (Oct-Sept). They changed the year to start at the calendar year at January (Jan-Dec). This change happened a couple of years ago and caused total havoc on comp teams. Old comp teams were essentially from the same grade, they now cross grades.
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  6. #156
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Americans suck at soccer. That’s why we call it soccer and not football, like the rest of the world. We’ve always sucked. Always have and always will. Time to face the music and focus on other sports we dominate because other countries don’t care for them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcat View Post
    It was based on age, but they had the age calendar year match the same calendar as the school year (Oct-Sept). They changed the year to start at the calendar year at January (Jan-Dec). This change happened a couple of years ago and caused total havoc on comp teams. Old comp teams were essentially from the same grade, they now cross grades.
    They also made that change almost concurrent with the silly determination that U-10 and below couldn't head the ball. Lots of silly rules enacted by US Soccer.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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    Senior Member Omaha 680's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    They also made that change almost concurrent with the silly determination that U-10 and below couldn't head the ball. Lots of silly rules enacted by US Soccer.
    In the current climate why would anyone want to take steps to protect players from repeated head trauma (and themselves from the risk of lawsuits) until science can more conclusively quantify the risks? So silly!
    Last edited by Omaha 680; 10-11-2017 at 08:02 PM.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    In the current climate why would anyone want to take steps to protect players from repeated head trauma (and themselves from the risk of lawsuits) until science can more conclusively quantify the risks? So silly!
    American players are already behind skill of other nations and the head trauma literature is conflicted at best.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

  10. #160

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    Football is not the only sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarik View Post
    Football is not the only sport.
    Some might consider that blasphemy.

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  12. #162
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    They also made that change almost concurrent with the silly determination that U-10 and below couldn't head the ball. Lots of silly rules enacted by US Soccer.
    Uh, that's a good one actually.
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  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Uh, that's a good one actually.
    Yeah, I don't mind that. But it's a bummer when you're a defender and accidentally head it out of instinct and the other team ends up with a PK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Yeah, I don't mind that. But it's a bummer when you're a defender and accidentally head it out of instinct and the other team ends up with a PK.
    well that should not happen, the correct restart is an IFK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Uh, that's a good one actually.
    Yeah. Kids neck muscles aren't developed enough to safely head a soccer ball. There are some 10 year olds out there with pretty strong legs.

    Im all for minimizing head injury risk. Watching my daughter in HS head the ball makes me cringe.
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  16. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    well that should not happen, the correct restart is an IFK.
    Which leads us back to one of the false claims of why club soccer costs so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    Which leads us back to one of the false claims of why club soccer costs so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hostile View Post
    Yeah. Kids neck muscles aren't developed enough to safely head a soccer ball. There are some 10 year olds out there with pretty strong legs.

    Im all for minimizing head injury risk. Watching my daughter in HS head the ball makes me cringe.
    I certainly won't argue with you about physiology, but I have a couple of questions.

    First, aren't most youth head injuries in soccer caused by head-to-head collisions? One of my soccer recollections involved my son, who was 14 at the time, taking a direct head shot from his coach, a former professional soccer player. When I took my son for examination, the physician said there is little risk of injury because a soccer ball is compressed air and not solid or reasonably solid such as a baseball.

    Second, I've see a good number of U-10s who are physically fit and capable of using correct form to head the ball, and in fact enjoy doing it. I suppose if you are speaking about redirection or whipping the ball, many will lack the muscular development but for straight on headers, do you believe that? Most younger players work first on straight on headers, before they learn to whip or redirect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    I certainly won't argue with you about physiology, but I have a couple of questions.

    First, aren't most youth head injuries in soccer caused by head-to-head collisions? One of my soccer recollections involved my son, who was 14 at the time, taking a direct head shot from his coach, a former professional soccer player. When I took my son for examination, the physician said there is little risk of injury because a soccer ball is compressed air and not solid or reasonably solid such as a baseball.

    Second, I've see a good number of U-10s who are physically fit and capable of using correct form to head the ball, and in fact enjoy doing it. I suppose if you are speaking about redirection or whipping the ball, many will lack the muscular development but for straight on headers, do you believe that? Most younger players work first on straight on headers, before they learn to whip or redirect.
    I've had a concussion from a soccer ball. Compressed air or not, it sure felt like a rock when it hit me straight in the face.
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    I've had a concussion from a soccer ball. Compressed air or not, it sure felt like a rock when it hit me straight in the face.
    Also, doesn't some of the CTE research point to the possibility that the more common problem isn't necessarily the knockout type of concussions (although obviously it's bad to get many of those) but the accumulation of "sub-concussive" over a career? I also remember reading that researchers showed that heading of a soccer ball easily falls into the sub-concussive range they are worried about. I obviously could be getting this all wrong.

  21. #171
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    Jack hammers are only compressed air, too.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Also, doesn't some of the CTE research point to the possibility that the more common problem isn't necessarily the knockout type of concussions (although obviously it's bad to get many of those) but the accumulation of "sub-concussive" over a career? I also remember reading that researchers showed that heading of a soccer ball easily falls into the sub-concussive range they are worried about. I obviously could be getting this all wrong.
    Yeah, but this is Topper's entertainment we're talking about.
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  23. #173
    lollygagger hostile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Also, doesn't some of the CTE research point to the possibility that the more common problem isn't necessarily the knockout type of concussions (although obviously it's bad to get many of those) but the accumulation of "sub-concussive" over a career? I also remember reading that researchers showed that heading of a soccer ball easily falls into the sub-concussive range they are worried about. I obviously could be getting this all wrong.
    Yes. It is the repetitive sub-concussion level injury that is concerning. Right now all the focus is on football but any sport is potentially at risk. Football coaches work on correct tackling technique and neck strengthening as a precaution. The nephew of my sons HS coach has presented some data on this to the NFL. The only demonstrable concussion I ever had was from basketball. Up to that point I had played more football and rugby combined without a known concussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hostile View Post
    Yes. It is the repetitive sub-concussion level injury that is concerning. Right now all the focus is on football but any sport is potentially at risk. Football coaches work on correct tackling technique and neck strengthening as a precaution. The nephew of my sons HS coach has presented some data on this to the NFL. The only demonstrable concussion I ever had was from basketball. Up to that point I had played more football and rugby combined without a known concussion.
    I don't know how the literature defines this. The wording makes it sound like being the object of a punching bag, not the occasional header one sees on the soccer field. Whether soccer players are at risk, I don't know, but I do know the rest of the world isn't concerned that this is an issue, or at least aren't taking precautions by limiting the age of youth practicing headers, or at least not yet. The truth is that many youth below U-8 can barely get the ball off the ground so that a header could be a concern. A lot of U-10 can't either.
    Last edited by Topper; 10-12-2017 at 05:11 PM.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    I don't know how the literature defines this. The wording makes it sound like being the object of a punching bag, not the occasional header one sees on the soccer field. Whether soccer players are at risk, I don't know, but I do know the rest of the world isn't concerned that this is an issue, or at least aren't taking precautions by limiting the age of youth practicing headers, or at least not yet. The truth is that many youth below U-8 can barely get the ball off the ground so that a header could be a concern. A lot of U-10 can't either.
    You'll be happy to know it is banned at U12 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    You'll be happy to know it is banned at U12 as well.
    Where? Not in New York.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Where? Not in New York.
    Here's the "suggested" rule from US Soccer. Looks like U12 kids can head the ball, but are limited to how much they can practice headers.

    The Federation is recommending, and US Club Soccer is requiring immediately, new rules as it relates to heading, as follows:

    Players in U-11 programs and younger shall not engage in heading, either in practices or in games.

    Limited heading in practice for players in U-12 and U-13 programs. More specifically, these players shall be limited to a maximum of 30 minutes of heading training per week, with no more than 15-20 headers per player, per week.

    Clubs should be aware of circumstances in which individual consideration is needed. For example:

    A 10 year old playing at U-12 or older should not head the ball at all.

    An 11 or 12 year old playing at U-14 or older should abide by the heading restrictions in practice.
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    Huge Member BigPiney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Where? Not in New York.
    AYSO here in CA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPiney View Post
    AYSO here in CA.
    Is that competitive soccer? I am not familiar with that league.

    Falafel quoted the rule as I understand it.
    "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

    Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper View Post
    Is that competitive soccer? I am not familiar with that league.

    Falafel quoted the rule as I understand it.
    Not familiar with AYSO?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

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