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Thread: Shame on Orrin Hatch - The Patron Saint of Quack Medicine

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Default Shame on Orrin Hatch - The Patron Saint of Quack Medicine

    My son recommended this book to me recently:

    Do You Believe in Magic?: The Sense and Nonsense of Alternative Medicine

    http://www.amazon.com/Do-You-Believe...0578761&sr=1-1

    I am about halfway through and it is a really good book. A page-turner. At the same time, I get pretty upset reading it. At the beginning of the book, it charts the history of medicine and shows how horrible things were just a century ago with a vast industry of snake oil salesman preying on the general public. It shows how we gradually started moving to evidenced-based medicine and started using double-blind clinical trials to sift the legit cures from the fraudulent cures. We made steady progress with the development of the FDA and a series of laws and regulations to protect the public from medicinal scams.

    In the early '90's some major legislation was proposed that would have put the final dagger in quack medicine, making it illegal to make fraudulent claims about the healing powers of any kind of health product. Sadly for all of us, it backfired and the quack industry put the dagger in the FDA. As the legislation was making steam, the tycoons of the quack industry gathered at a large estate in California and planned what to do in order to protect their multi-billion dollar business. They decided to fund a massive campaign to stop the legislation and a core part of the strategy was to buy off a number of senators to lead the fight in Washington. The main target was our very own Orrin Hatch, who was already a fan alternative medicine and was already bought off by the supplement industry in Utah (many of which are also pyramid schemes). In a classic case of cronyism, they donated massive amounts to his campaign and he led an effort that not only killed the bill, but he wrote and successfully passed a bill that carved out a special exception for certain types of quack medicine. If your drug can be classified as a vitamin, herb (plant-based), etc (a few other criteria - can't remember the full list) then you can make ANY claim you want without any consequences whatsoever. Cures cancer? Sure, whatever. If your claim gets debunked by clinical trials, no problem. Just keep on committing fraud and lining your pockets with the money from desperate sick people and Orrin Hatch has your back. I wonder how many people have died because they wasted their money on fraudulent cures when they could have been using something that actually works. It is disgusting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    My son recommended this book to me recently:

    Do You Believe in Magic?: The Sense and Nonsense of Alternative Medicine

    http://www.amazon.com/Do-You-Believe...0578761&sr=1-1

    I am about halfway through and it is a really good book. A page-turner. At the same time, I get pretty upset reading it. At the beginning of the book, it charts the history of medicine and shows how horrible things were just a century ago with a vast industry of snake oil salesman preying on the general public. It shows how we gradually started moving to evidenced-based medicine and started using double-blind clinical trials to sift the legit cures from the fraudulent cures. We made steady progress with the development of the FDA and a series of laws and regulations to protect the public from medicinal scams.

    In the early '90's some major legislation was proposed that would have put the final dagger in quack medicine, making it illegal to make fraudulent claims about the healing powers of any kind of health product. Sadly for all of us, it backfired and the quack industry put the dagger in the FDA. As the legislation was making steam, the tycoons of the quack industry gathered at a large estate in California and planned what to do in order to protect their multi-billion dollar business. They decided to fund a massive campaign to stop the legislation and a core part of the strategy was to buy off a number of senators to lead the fight in Washington. The main target was our very own Orrin Hatch, who was already a fan alternative medicine and was already bought off by the supplement industry in Utah (many of which are also pyramid schemes). In a classic case of cronyism, they donated massive amounts to his campaign and he led an effort that not only killed the bill, but he wrote and successfully passed a bill that carved out a special exception for certain types of quack medicine. If your drug can be classified as a vitamin, herb (plant-based), etc (a few other criteria - can't remember the full list) then you can make ANY claim you want without any consequences whatsoever. Cures cancer? Sure, whatever. If your claim gets debunked by clinical trials, no problem. Just keep on committing fraud and lining your pockets with the money from desperate sick people and Orrin Hatch has your back. I wonder how many people have died because they wasted their money on fraudulent cures when they could have been using something that actually works. It is disgusting.
    Wow. I'll have to check that out.

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    As part of Hatch's legislation, they set up an alternative to the FDA that tests these protected alternative medicines. It is called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). However, unlike the FDA, they are not required to test these medicines prior to sale the general public. And if the medicines are found to be bogus, there is no requirement whatsoever to pull them from the market (unlike regular meds). The NCCAM simply buries the results of the study in a journal somewhere and the industry rolls on. Here are some things that have been debunked by the NCCAM in recent years via double-blind clinical trials that you probably never heard about:

    Ginko Biloba - Top-selling natural cure for dementia and memory enhancer. Hundreds of millions in sales per year. Completely ineffective.

    St. John's Wort - Wildly popular cure for depression. Safe and natural! Also completely ineffective.

    Garlic - Natural way to lower your cholesterol. Total waste of money.

    Saw Palmetto - Top-selling natural treatment for prostate cancer. Has absolutely zero effect.

    Echinacea - Treats the common cold. $130M per year in sales. Total scam.

    Megavitamins - Large doses of vitamin E, C, etc are supposed to load your body with antioxidants and make you live longer and healthier. In fact, they actually make you LESS healthy. They increase your risk of cancer and heart disease by up to 30%.

    Thanks, Orrin! Hope you enjoy all that money.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as alternative medicine, natural medicine, holistic medicine, mainstream medicine, etc. There is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't work.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    There is no such thing as alternative medicine, natural medicine, holistic medicine, mainstream medicine, etc. There is only medicine that works and medicine that doesn't work.
    I have worked in the headquarters of two different MLMs. The distributors of these companies are about as slimy as they come. I don't have a problem with the overall way the organizations are organized (if people are stupid enough to sign up for a program where they think they can get rich selling $18 bottles of shampoo that are the equivalent of the 88 cent bottle of Suave found in any grocery store, then more power to them). However, I do have a major problem with the out and out lies that people tell in order to entice others to sign up.

    Before I went to law school, I told a distributor that I had given my personal number to that I was leaving the company to go to law school. I may as well have told him that I ran over his dog the previous night. He was devastated. He tried to convince me to join his down line because if I did he would have me earning more in one month as a distributor than I could in a year as an attorney. After checking....the dude had made like $50 the previous month (and who knows how much of his own resources he had spent making that whopping $50). I can assure you that my annual salary does in fact exceed $50.

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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    I have worked in the headquarters of two different MLMs. The distributors of these companies are about as slimy as they come. I don't have a problem with the overall way the organizations are organized (if people are stupid enough to sign up for a program where they think they can get rich selling $18 bottles of shampoo that are the equivalent of the 88 cent bottle of Suave found in any grocery store, then more power to them). However, I do have a major problem with the out and out lies that people tell in order to entice others to sign up.

    Before I went to law school, I told a distributor that I had given my personal number to that I was leaving the company to go to law school. I may as well have told him that I ran over his dog the previous night. He was devastated. He tried to convince me to join his down line because if I did he would have me earning more in one month as a distributor than I could in a year as an attorney. After checking....the dude had made like $50 the previous month (and who knows how much of his own resources he had spent making that whopping $50). I can assure you that my annual salary does in fact exceed $50.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    I can assure you that my annual salary does in fact exceed $50.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    50 1% of all attorney salaries.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    Actually, I'd call him a good representative of the people and the business interests of the State of Utah.

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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Crap, I just bought a bottle of Echinacea.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Senior Member dabrockster's Avatar
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    My Dad SWORE by St. Johns Wort.. My Mom probably still has a bottle of it in the house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    As part of Hatch's legislation, they set up an alternative to the FDA that tests these protected alternative medicines. It is called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). However, unlike the FDA, they are not required to test these medicines prior to sale the general public. And if the medicines are found to be bogus, there is no requirement whatsoever to pull them from the market (unlike regular meds). The NCCAM simply buries the results of the study in a journal somewhere and the industry rolls on. Here are some things that have been debunked by the NCCAM in recent years via double-blind clinical trials that you probably never heard about:

    Ginko Biloba - Top-selling natural cure for dementia and memory enhancer. Hundreds of millions in sales per year. Completely ineffective.

    St. John's Wort - Wildly popular cure for depression. Safe and natural! Also completely ineffective.

    Garlic - Natural way to lower your cholesterol. Total waste of money.

    Saw Palmetto - Top-selling natural treatment for prostate cancer. Has absolutely zero effect.

    Echinacea - Treats the common cold. $130M per year in sales. Total scam.

    Megavitamins - Large doses of vitamin E, C, etc are supposed to load your body with antioxidants and make you live longer and healthier. In fact, they actually make you LESS healthy. They increase your risk of cancer and heart disease by up to 30%.

    Thanks, Orrin! Hope you enjoy all that money.
    I can't remember which BYU professor was hot on ethnobiology, but I think it permeated the department for awhile. Ginko Biloba was certainly sexy when I was there.

    I'll push back on you about garlic though. Garlic kills HIV!!! Or so my virology prof said...

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    Actually, I'd call him a good representative of the people and the business interests of the State of Utah.
    Selected business interests? Sure.

    People? No way. Unless you think it is a service to ensure that those people are kept in the dark about fraudulent business practices.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    As part of Hatch's legislation, they set up an alternative to the FDA that tests these protected alternative medicines. It is called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM). However, unlike the FDA, they are not required to test these medicines prior to sale the general public. And if the medicines are found to be bogus, there is no requirement whatsoever to pull them from the market (unlike regular meds). The NCCAM simply buries the results of the study in a journal somewhere and the industry rolls on. Here are some things that have been debunked by the NCCAM in recent years via double-blind clinical trials that you probably never heard about:

    Ginko Biloba - Top-selling natural cure for dementia and memory enhancer. Hundreds of millions in sales per year. Completely ineffective.

    St. John's Wort - Wildly popular cure for depression. Safe and natural! Also completely ineffective.

    Garlic - Natural way to lower your cholesterol. Total waste of money.

    Saw Palmetto - Top-selling natural treatment for prostate cancer. Has absolutely zero effect.

    Echinacea - Treats the common cold. $130M per year in sales. Total scam.

    Megavitamins - Large doses of vitamin E, C, etc are supposed to load your body with antioxidants and make you live longer and healthier. In fact, they actually make you LESS healthy. They increase your risk of cancer and heart disease by up to 30%.

    Thanks, Orrin! Hope you enjoy all that money.
    I keep telling you, man, that Orrin and all those Utah MLMs with their snake oils are full of sh*t.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
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    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    I keep telling you, man, that Orrin and all those Utah MLMs with their snake oils are full of sh*t.
    You keep telling me? Does it look like I am not on your side?
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    You keep telling me? Does it look like I am not on your side?
    Well, you are the one that had to read the book to believe it. I don't need a book to tell me that.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
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    "If we do nothing we'll be substantially behind (other Power leagues) a decade from now." -Bob Bowlsby on Big 12 expansion.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    I once overheard a chiro tell a woman that the best way to cure her toddler's ear infection was to buy some garlic gel caps, heat them up a little, then open up the caps and pour the garlic gel directly into the ear. He told her it would feel really good and kill the infection.

    Not sure if there is any truth to any of it, but Im passing it along here FWIW.
    Fitter. Happier. More Productive.


  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I once overheard a chiro tell a woman that the best way to cure her toddler's ear infection was to buy some garlic gel caps, heat them up a little, then open up the caps and pour the garlic gel directly into the ear. He told her it would feel really good and kill the infection.

    Not sure if there is any truth to any of it, but Im passing it along here FWIW.
    You are passing along that information, even without a pitch to join your downline? Thanks man.

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    Senior Member dabrockster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I once overheard a chiro tell a woman that the best way to cure her toddler's ear infection was to buy some garlic gel caps, heat them up a little, then open up the caps and pour the garlic gel directly into the ear. He told her it would feel really good and kill the infection.

    Not sure if there is any truth to any of it, but Im passing it along here FWIW.


    On a side note: My wife dumps peroxide in her ears monthly.. SWEARS, that it ensures she does not get ear infections.

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post


    On a side note: My wife dumps peroxide in her ears monthly.. SWEARS, that it ensures she does not get ear infections.
    I don't do that and I never get ear infections. I SWEAR that doing nothing works.
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    Chronic Poseur USUC's Avatar
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    Although I don't really have expertise on alternative medicine, the wife swears by olive leaf when your fighting a virus. Its expensive so I don't take it myself. My go to "alternative medicine" is nasal irrigation at the first symptom of a cold (or if I'm around people that are sick). This seems to do away with most symptoms.

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    Trump-hating snowflake Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USUC View Post
    Although I don't really have expertise on alternative medicine, the wife swears by olive leaf when your fighting a virus. Its expensive so I don't take it myself. My go to "alternative medicine" is nasal irrigation at the first symptom of a cold (or if I'm around people that are sick). This seems to do away with most symptoms.
    http://www.med.nyu.edu/content?ChunkIID=111710

    Olive leaf contains a substance called oleuropein, which breaks down in the body to another substance called enolinate. On websites that promote olive leaf extracts, it is stated that enolinate kills harmful bacteria, viruses, and fungi in the body, but at the same time nurtures microbes that are good for health. This remarkable claim, however, has no meaningful scientific evidence.
    "Socialism is not bad IMHO" - byu71
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.

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    Chronic Poseur USUC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    If i was to take this info to my wife she would still take it because "you can't argue with results." I will continue to not take it.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripletDaddy View Post
    I once overheard a chiro tell a woman that the best way to cure her toddler's ear infection was to buy some garlic gel caps, heat them up a little, then open up the caps and pour the garlic gel directly into the ear. He told her it would feel really good and kill the infection.

    Not sure if there is any truth to any of it, but Im passing it along here FWIW.
    BYUtv's chiropractic advertiser tells me he can effectively treat Hashimoto's. BYU wouldn't allow that kind of advertising if it wasn't true, right?

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nakoma View Post
    BYUtv's chiropractic advertiser tells me he can effectively treat Hashimoto's. BYU wouldn't allow that kind of advertising if it wasn't true, right?
    I am doubtful that Hasimoto's can be cured with back adjustments.
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by dabrockster View Post


    On a side note: My wife dumps peroxide in her ears monthly.. SWEARS, that it ensures she does not get ear infections.
    I have never done anything to my ears and I have never had an ear infection.
    Will donate kidney for B12 membership.

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    For the record Orrin was into this sort of thing prior to being elected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka View Post
    For the record Orrin was into this sort of thing prior to being elected.
    Sadly, that does not make me feel better about his bullshit legislation.
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  29. #29

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    Shit like this is also embarrassing : http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/13412
    "Just watched the speech. He lit up both sides. I loved it." -Shaka

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    sweet triple TripletDaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank ryan View Post
    Shit like this is also embarrassing : http://www.ldsmag.com/article/1/13412
    I noticed the guy married his wife's best friend.

    didnt get past the first page and the part where he compared mental illness in pigs to mental illness in humans. I assume his business model is to promote good eating to cure depression? Sounds like a great MLM opportunity.
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