Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Blueintheface View Post
    I'm not advocating making them martyrs, politically or literally, and I see that side of it, but they are not breaking minor laws here. And yes I realize the implications of getting this wrong could be catastrophic, even without bloodshed, I just don't think ignoring it makes sense. If nothing else, convince someone with whom they are not pathologically paranoid towards to broker an exit strategy.

    They are obviously not partial to ultimatums but you can't treat petulance with silence.
    They'll quit and go home when supporters stop bringing them snacks.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
      the surest way to encourage this is to make them martyrs and lend credence to the argument that the big bad usfg oppresses lowly ranchers and common folk. let them play army for a few months and alienate people that otherwise would be sympathetic to their cause. they're not hurting anybody and will get theirs when it's politically expedient for the feds to make an arrest.
      I understand this argument, but I don't think they have much public support at all. Having a dispute about the feds rounding up your cattle is one thing, but taking over a federal facility? Why not immediately do a siege and starve them out? Why not arrest each one as he leaves the property?

      Furthermore, Bundy Sr. has been thumbing his nose at the government for 20+ years with no consequence. And the two Harney ranchers are doing hard time for a far less egregious, one-time offense. It is all baffling.
      "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
      "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
      "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
        I understand this argument, but I don't think they have much public support at all. Having a dispute about the feds rounding up your cattle is one thing, but taking over a federal facility? Why not immediately do a siege and starve them out? Why not arrest each one as he leaves the property?

        Furthermore, Bundy Sr. has been thumbing his nose at the government for 20+ years with no consequence. And the two Harney ranchers are doing hard time for a far less egregious, one-time offense. It is all baffling.
        they usfg is betting on two things: 1) there is some nonzero possibility of conflict if an attempt to arrest them is made, and the outcome of getting in a shootout with would be very bad, and 2) the longer these dummies are in the spotlight, the more dumb things they'll do, alienating any support they do have. so the longer they wait, the more 2) mitigates the risk of 1). there will be some tipping point where the probability of a shootout or the magnitude of that impact (i.e., people caring about there being a shootout) will be low enough that the feds should act. i think this is the right play; even if there isn't a great deal of support, there probably would be more outrage by fence sitters now about an fbi sniper putting a round of .308 in that bundy dingleberry than a month from now when he's embarrassed himself even more. plus, when bundy can't pay the $70k/day fine, the feds can repo his interest in his ranch and have the last laugh.
        Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
          they usfg is betting on two things: 1) there is some nonzero possibility of conflict if an attempt to arrest them is made, and the outcome of getting in a shootout with would be very bad, and 2) the longer these dummies are in the spotlight, the more dumb things they'll do, alienating any support they do have. so the longer they wait, the more 2) mitigates the risk of 1). there will be some tipping point where the probability of a shootout or the magnitude of that impact (i.e., people caring about there being a shootout) will be low enough that the feds should act. i think this is the right play; even if there isn't a great deal of support, there probably would be more outrage by fence sitters now about an fbi sniper putting a round of .308 in that bundy dingleberry than a month from now when he's embarrassed himself even more. plus, when bundy can't pay the $70k/day fine, the feds can repo his interest in his ranch and have the last laugh.
          Tell me more about this fine.
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Tell me more about this fine.
            it might be a local judge blowing smoke, but the number doesn't sound that far off to me

            http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/1...ex-toys-arrive
            Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

            Comment


            • The Oregonian urging authorities to clamp down, cut off power.

              http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/in...e_to_pull.html
              "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
              "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
              "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

              Comment


              • Oregon governor has had enough.

                http://www.statesmanjournal.com/stor...ey=&autologin=

                “The situation is absolutely intolerable and it must be resolved immediately. The very fabric of this community is being ripped apart,” Brown said at a news conference at the Capitol.
                The state is spending about $100,000 per week on the occupation, Brown said, and she will ask federal authorities to reimburse the state.
                “The residents of Harney County have been overlooked and undeserved by federal officials’ response thus far,” she said. “I have conveyed these very grave concerns directly to our leaders at the highest levels of our government, the U.S. Department of Justice and the White House.”

                Brown said federal authorities must quickly end the occupation and hold the occupiers accountable.

                “This spectacle of lawlessness must end,” she said.
                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                Comment


                • Spending $100,000 a week on the occupation? How is that even possible?
                  Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

                  "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

                  GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by falafel View Post
                    Spending $100,000 a week on the occupation? How is that even possible?
                    Security for starters. Overtime, hotels, per diem, etc.

                    From the article old_gregg linked:

                    It's been a costly step-up in security and the like, according to Harney County Judge Steve Grasty, who put the cost at "$60,000 to $70,000 a day -- and we're going to send Mr. Bundy the bill," he told the crowd of about 200.
                    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                    Comment


                    • Once again, the rule of law is of the utmost importance! Unless it's immigration law we're talking about, then it's unfair and we don't bother with it that much.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                        Security for starters. Overtime, hotels, per diem, etc.

                        From the article old_gregg linked:
                        That's insane. I wonder if that is computing over-time and extra employees who wouldn't otherwise be working at that time, or just a general bill for the salaries of all people employed by that department. There is a lot of crapola used in computing the cost of items. For example, when the media likes to quote the cost of the trial to the public, they often cite the judge's salary and the salary of court employees even though those people would be employed no matter what.
                        "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                        Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Topper View Post
                          That's insane. I wonder if that is computing over-time and extra employees who wouldn't otherwise be working at that time, or just a general bill for the salaries of all people employed by that department. There is a lot of crapola used in computing the cost of items. For example, when the media likes to quote the cost of the trial to the public, they often cite the judge's salary and the salary of court employees even though those people would be employed no matter what.
                          extra security, makeup time for shutting down schools, overtime, lost productivity, etc., are all expensive
                          Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by old_gregg View Post
                            extra security, makeup time for shutting down schools, overtime, lost productivity, etc., are all expensive
                            That is undoubtedly true. And maybe that is the only source for the high costs. However, in the few times I have had to audit what public officials claim a situation costs, I have often found a lot of bloated figures.
                            "Guitar groups are on their way out, Mr Epstein."

                            Upon rejecting the Beatles, Dick Rowe told Brian Epstein of the January 1, 1962 audition for Decca, which signed Brian Poole and the Tremeloes instead.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
                              Starve them out? Once again you pontificate without reading the article (or doing much research in general apparently). The occupiers have been free to come and go whenever they want. Ammon Bundy was in the audience at the town meeting.
                              Well, so long as they take their own vehicle.

                              http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2498828
                              I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Dwight Schr-ute View Post
                                Well, so long as they take their own vehicle.

                                http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.2498828
                                OK. I guess we know where the limits are.
                                "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                                "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                                "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X