Originally posted by SeattleUte
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Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News
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Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View PostThis is true. I have relatives that have said (and sometimes still say) some really dumb and offensive things. But most of it comes from culture and ignorance and they are good people.
That being said, Bundy's comments about picking cotton and blacks maybe being better off under slavery are among the most vile and offensive things one could say. That takes the concept of a brain fart/stupid comment to a whole new level.
Here is more of the context than what the NYT gives:
It seems that Cliven Bundy is more of a dumbass red neck than a racist."If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by Uncle Ted View PostIt seems that Cliven Bundy is more of a dumbass red neck than a racist.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Apparently some Mormons have a hard time recognizing racism.That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens
http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug
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Originally posted by SoonerCoug View PostApparently some Mormons have a hard time recognizing racism.“There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
― W.H. Auden
"God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
-- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Originally posted by SoonerCoug View PostApparently some Mormons have a hard time recognizing racism.sigpic
"Outlined against a blue, gray
October sky the Four Horsemen rode again"
Grantland Rice, 1924
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Originally posted by Uncle Ted View PostIt seems from listening to more of context of Bundy's "sermon" that the NY Times took some of the quotes out of context and didn't quote everything actually... It seems that Bundy is trying to say the government has made their condition worse by claiming the government has taken away their freedom somehow. Of course, he doesn't state his case very well (and it is no wonder he lost his case in federal court trying to represent himself). What is interesting is some of the things he says about the hispanics (e.g. "don't tell me they don't work hard", "don't tell me they don't pay taxes", "they have better family structures than most white peoples", etc.). Those comments don't seem to be that of a racist. So the question is why didn't the NYT include Bundy's comments about the "spanish people". It seems yet another case of the NYT creating the news rather than reporting the news.
Here is more of the context than what the NYT gives:
It seems that Cliven Bundy is more of a dumbass red neck than a racist.
Originally posted by LA Ute View PostYep, or at best a very uneducated, inarticulate guy. Still an embarrassment to Mormons in any case.
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This guy isn't worth all this attention. I'm sorry he's highlighted the mindset of many especially rural Mormons particularly of his generation. But he's an artifact. No more significant than that.
But I'm sure Uncle Ted wasn't being apologitic or minimizing to the exent there was racism. I haven't bothered to watch the video and I'm not going to. I imagine he said something like the welfare state is as bad as slavery for what it has done to blacks. That statement is offensive for a lot of reasons, but it could be construed as not a racist comment. I think it was racist. One problem is that some people just can't get over habitually regarding people in terms of their race whatever they're talking about. There's something wrong with that.
This yahoo had his fifteen minutes of fame and now it's time to let him quickly sink into oblivion.When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
--Jonathan Swift
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Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post
If he's racist, he's savvy enough to not say really vile things. I don't think he's Mormon.Get confident, stupid
-landpoke
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I mentioned on FB that Cliven is just a product of living an insulated lifestyle, in an insulated place, with a paradigm that was helped formed by an insulated religion. I don't fault him for the terms he uses. Clearly he hasn't closely interacted with many black people in his life. But ignoring the antiquated vocabulary does not excuse the idea that any current condition amongst inner city African Americans is at all comparable to slavery. Whether out of ignorance or idiocy, the rhetoric is a giant finger to just how deplorable and inhumane the conditions slavery were forced to endure. Or, in many cases, not endure. So as clumsily as the supposition may have been verbalized, the very thought process is almost comical. History doesn't need Cliven to convince us that slavery wasn't so bad.
Having said all of that, I like to think that although we're all probably a little more racist than we care to admit, few of us are really as racist as we sound.I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.
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Originally posted by YOhio View PostNo way! You really mentioned that on Facebook? Wow.
On a separate note, the Nevada state Senator quoted in this KSL article is a member of my stake presidency. It's almost enough to make me regret missing the adult session of stake conference that starts in 10 minutes. Almost.
http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/29633832I told him he was a goddamn Nazi Stormtrooper.
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Originally posted by cowboy View PostIt has become a semantic argument. Most people now, including you, apparently, believe that anyone who makes an offensive statement is automatically a racist. Others disagree, and hold to the more narrow definition of a racist being one who believes their skin color/race makes them superior to those of different skin colors/races. Bundy is certainly a racist by the first definition, but he may not be by the second definition. Unfortunately, I believe there are plenty of progressives who are not racists by the first definition but definitely are by the second.
http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1091672"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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Originally posted by SeattleUte View Post"If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
"I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
"Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!
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