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Thread: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

  1. #3271
    Local Character clackamascoug's Avatar
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    In the past 20 years, I've seen two people pulled from the podium. In those cases it wasn't hard to make the call at all. We've also had non-members come forward and be really awkward and impolite, but like Cousin Eddy's dog... we just let them finish.

    Of course my best story was the knife wielding assailant who had threatened the life of the Bishop. Police were called and the perp ran across the top of the pews before being tazed into submission. The most interesting part of that day was the unspoken cooperation between the cognizant brethren to surround the guy and herding the women and children out of the chapel. We had no less than 6 men wrap their suit jackets around their left arms ready to take on the attacker.

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  2. #3272
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Is it really that simple? What about someone making allegations that could reasonably constitute libel? For example, what is someone gets up and starts making criminal allegations against someone in the audience? What if someone gets up and starts dropping f-bombs? Churches are private organizations. It is perfectly reasonable for local leaders to have the right to remove people under certain circumstances.
    I agree with you here completely. It is one thing to sit at your keyboard in your office and ponder the language of the handbook and then provide sage advice on handling the almost infinite array of possible situations that might arise. It is another thing completely to be sitting there on the stand and have to make a call when you are not sure what is going to be said or happen; whether the speaker will be violent, threatening, or crude etc. As much sympathy as I have for this woman, for example, and I do, I do not fault the leaders for ushering her off. The F&T pulpit is not Speakers' Corner. It has a designated purpose and subject. The called church leaders are in charge of that forum and property and should be allowed to do what they did, as long as they are acting reasonably.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  3. #3273
    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armenag View Post
    Except she's in the midst of litigation. That's the appropriate means of seeking justice and/or restitution. And it's why it's so problematic for her cheerleader to have encouraged this. It's a bad look to tell a judge presiding over your case that you had to do this because it was the only way of getting justice. It's the judge's ongoing job to help ensure justice in this case is done.
    I wonder if the litigation referred to here also plays a role in the church's response. I imagine they are being super careful about what they say, knowing that it may be used against them in a court of law.

  4. #3274
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

    About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  5. #3275
    Local Character clackamascoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

    About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.
    That's the great thing about truth - it's universal.

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  6. #3276
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

    About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.
    Clearly one of the three nephites.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  7. #3277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Clearly one of the three nephites.
    Or our very own Clack.

    Q to ponder: Has anybody seen the three Nephites and Clack in the same room?
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  8. #3278
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    I’m so glad I no longer operate the mic and wouldn’t have to deal with this type of situation. In my time serving I never had a big issue like this come up. We had our share of quirky things, but never someone that intentionally wanted to disrupt the meeting. I would sometimes get texts from nervous members asking about certain people that were in the congregation that looked suspect, but our bishop made it a point to shake everyone’s hand and introduce himself prior to the meeting. We often started five minutes late but it was great to know that most of the unknown people were usually from a different ward in the stake or were family of members in the ward. But there was always a nervous feeling that something really weird was going to happen during open mic church and thankfully it never did in my four years.

    I think the bishop handled his situation very well save for touching the lady, but he was gentle enough in doing so that I don’t have an issue with it. She had been asked to leave and refused, at which point she is trespassing. I’d honestly be worried she was going to do something more crazy so I have no issues with the bishop using some physical force to take control of the situation. The lady has no right (personally or legally) to be at that pulpit once she is asked to leave and if the situation escalated (remember the guy that shot and killed someone in a church a couple months ago?) because the bishop just sat and did nothing or had the congregation sing a song, the dehlinites would be up in arms about why the bishop didn’t do something and why the church didn’t do something.
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  9. #3279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omaha 680 View Post
    Sure she made the decision to do it; it might even have been her idea. But if she was really raped in the MTC and ignored about it for decades then I will give her a bit of a pass. I'm sure that would mess someone up. But it is a shame she doesn't have people around her that are truly concerned with her healing first of all and inlfuencinf the church to avoid anything like this in the future second of all. If she did have those people around her they would certainly talk her out of this stuff. People like NNNoah and Dehlin are bad people because they cloak their own axe grinding and fame-seeking in feigned concern for those they exploit.
    I agree.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
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  10. #3280

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Is it really that simple? What about someone making allegations that could reasonably constitute libel? For example, what is someone gets up and starts making criminal allegations against someone in the audience? What if someone gets up and starts dropping f-bombs? Churches are private organizations. It is perfectly reasonable for local leaders to have the right to remove people under certain circumstances.
    If someone is up there saying things that are libel. Cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. The LDS church will have no liability for the libel. If someone gets up and makes criminal allegations against someone in the audience, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. If someone is dropping f-bombs, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises.

    It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  11. #3281
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    If someone is up there saying things that are libel. Cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. The LDS church will have no liability for the libel. If someone gets up and makes criminal allegations against someone in the audience, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. If someone is dropping f-bombs, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises.

    It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.
    Cut the mic. That's funny.

    So you are OK with a forcible removal, as long as it is outsourced. Gotcha.
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  12. #3282
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post

    It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.
    And they have to wait until violence actually happens? Neither reason nor the law requires that.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

  13. #3283
    Soul Plumber wuapinmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post

    So you are OK with a forcible removal, as long as it is outsourced. Gotcha.
    Well, isn't that the main thrust of Leviathan? We surrender the monopoly on the use of violence to the State?
    "Yeah, but never trust a Ph.D who has an MBA as well. The PhD symbolizes intelligence and discipline. The MBA symbolizes lust for power." -- Katy Lied

  14. #3284
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuapinmon View Post
    Well, isn't that the main thrust of Leviathan? We surrender the monopoly on the use of violence to the State?
    Violence, but not necessarily physical means if removal. If someone enters your house without permission, but is not violent an refuses to leave, are you going to call the police and simply wait for them to trespass the person if your property?
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

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  15. #3285

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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    Violence, but not necessarily physical means if removal. If someone enters your house without permission, but is not violent an refuses to leave, are you going to call the police and simply wait for them to trespass the person if your property?
    Hey, this is a private residence, man.
    The crux of what has traumatized us about CUF/CG is that we thought they were our friends. And their identity as BYU fans turned out to be the most important thing to them. What empty lives! What a damning indictment of the LDS Church!
    --SeattleUte

    He who drinks beer sleeps well. He who sleeps well cannot sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven. The logic is impeccable.
    --Charles W. Bamforth, Ph.D.

  16. #3286
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Store owners kick people out of their stores all the time, often using physical means.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  17. #3287

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    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFunkhouser View Post
    Hey, this is a private residence, man.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  18. #3288

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    Jesus kicked money changers out of the temple, made whips overturned tables and said this is not the place to sell your sacrifices. Private property. I have seen many thankamonies, I love my family, what a difference you made on my life. Been told not to bare those kind of testimonies but people do all the time.

    I hard of testimonies were one Young women railed on someone and another one said this is her story. Growing up unheard of to go to pulpit microphone came. Now most people go to the podium though mic is still passed. Town I grew up in one school with 10 to 15 people per grade on average. We hired grade school teacher that parents said if he is teaching after Jan 1st won.t send kids to school. So board fired hm. Joined church somewhere along the line. I,was in third grade.

    I kept trying to get up but deacons missed seeing me and gave mic to other people. Just before counselor got up to close meeting fired school teacher stood up and counselor said go ahead. He railed on principal, superintendent, we had one administrator and member of school board. Mad at them both. Said I should shake persons hand and shook one of the people's hands he was mad at across isle. What was he dong. New teacher from neighboring town lds but I donlt think active at that time, we said he said it was wrong for him to get fired, and she said your not supposed to say that in church.

    He called school several years later asking for help in saying not able to work so eligible for social security benefits. Heard him and principal shouting at each other in his office. We had kid throw up forever and he was raising hand to get permission to go to bathroom while hand covers mouth and threw up in class, teacher didn't see him. Also kicked kids out for passing gas.

    Counselor saw me trying to get up and said we are late but had deacons give me mic, basically did not have to mutter sorry it got out of hand, closing hymn on page after which will give prayer, awkward situation there.

    Had altercation between China and player so board said don,t have coach back next season and sil of coach got up and said we are divided community Jesus crucified on false evidence they regretted get all sides of story. Coach dropped f bomb a few times I heard. Then assistant for year got up and said it was my job to keep coach from being jackass I did not do it I was biggest jackass. He was retried principal who got railed on by teacher. Bishop out of town, but sp member there in Ward and counsellors and sp member looking at each other what do I do now? People visiting for baby blessing too. Weird. Testimony meeting normal after that.

    Do to unrighteousness desciscions, unforgiving hearts, greed and false witnesses rural town received unwanted media attention. So member came to make sure nothing inappropriate said, but nothing in regular Sunday or fast and testimony meeting was said about the incidents. One man said he never saw anything like it, but our sacrament meeting was just another sacrament meeting another Sunday like any other place in the world. No pulpit feud over community prolblems what on occasion does happen in rural wards.

  19. #3289

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    oh man. i love this forum.
    I'm like LeBron James.
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  20. #3290
    Local Character clackamascoug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    oh man. i love this forum.
    Kind of like Picasso - in a way - both in content placement and the slow burn appreciation over a long period. He's a genius to be sure, maybe even on the level of McNaughton.

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  21. #3291

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    Sam Young ex'd. Not a surprise.

    It's always interesting to see the 'tipping point' of people on social media. I have a FB friend and a cousin who have promoted his cause recently. One is ready to break from the church. Family and friends do not understand why she is breaking from the leadership on this. And from the outside, I'm sure it looks silly to make this your 'line in the sand'. But I'm sure the struggle occurred long before this. At some point, you just say enough. It's probably not a great idea to declare publicly your progmo/exmo beliefs, because the backlash is entirely predictable. It helps with your personal integrity, but not much else.

  22. #3292
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Sam Young ex'd. Not a surprise.

    It's always interesting to see the 'tipping point' of people on social media. I have a FB friend and a cousin who have promoted his cause recently. One is ready to break from the church. Family and friends do not understand why she is breaking from the leadership on this. And from the outside, I'm sure it looks silly to make this your 'line in the sand'. But I'm sure the struggle occurred long before this. At some point, you just say enough. It's probably not a great idea to declare publicly your progmo/exmo beliefs, because the backlash is entirely predictable. It helps with your personal integrity, but not much else.
    Sam Young? Not ringing a bell. Have we discussed him/her here?
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  23. #3293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    Sam Young? Not ringing a bell. Have we discussed him/her here?
    Maybe not.

    https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018...mormon-church/

  24. #3294
    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Thanks - I do remember hearing about him now.
    "I think it was King Benjamin who said 'you sorry ass shitbags who have no skills that the market values also have an obligation to have the attitude that if one day you do in fact win the PowerBall Lottery that you will then impart of your substance to those without.'"
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  25. #3295

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    Sam Young ex'd. Not a surprise.

    It's always interesting to see the 'tipping point' of people on social media. I have a FB friend and a cousin who have promoted his cause recently. One is ready to break from the church. Family and friends do not understand why she is breaking from the leadership on this. And from the outside, I'm sure it looks silly to make this your 'line in the sand'. But I'm sure the struggle occurred long before this. At some point, you just say enough. It's probably not a great idea to declare publicly your progmo/exmo beliefs, because the backlash is entirely predictable. It helps with your personal integrity, but not much else.
    i sympathize in some ways with sam but he sure has been an attention whore about this.
    Te Occidere Possunt Sed Te Edere Non Possunt Nefas Est.

  26. #3296
    One man.....one pie Moliere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    i sympathize in some ways with sam but he sure has been an attention whore about this.
    I know very little about him or his movement, but I do know that all the promos on Twitter think he’s borderline crazy even though they seem to support him
    "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

  27. #3297
    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    I know very little about him or his movement, but I do know that all the promos on Twitter think he’s borderline crazy even though they seem to support him
    Isn't he from Houston? You are our boots on the ground down there.
    Ain't it like most people, I'm no different. We love to talk on things we don't know about.

    "The only one of us who is so significant that Jeff owes us something simply because he decided to grace us with his presence is falafel." -- All-American

    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

  28. #3298

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    Quote Originally Posted by old_gregg View Post
    i sympathize in some ways with sam but he sure has been an attention whore about this.
    Yup.

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