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Thread: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

  1. #3991

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Money donated by members of the church for humanitarian aid cannot be counted as money disbursed by the church as humanitarian aid? Sorry, that is nuts.
    No, I agree with that principle completely. It is the perception of church leadership touting that money when they are confronted with the question if they should be donating more from the vast reserves. IMO, it comes off as they (as church leadership) are trying to bolster that amount with fast offerings, in an effort to defend themselves against the larger question of what to do with billions in reserve. I'm not saying that's what they are trying to do, just that to me it comes across like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    The church has yearly operational expenses costing billions of dollars: buildings, missionary efforts, educational institutions, programs and initiatives, counselling services (mental health), legal services, employment services, religious educational institutions, programs and initiatives etc.

    The church also contributes to at least 155 humanitarian initiatives in "195 different countries." The presiding Bishopric, who manages and administers this aid has stated those contributions are close to a billion dollars annually.

    How is any of the above disingenuous?
    See above.

  2. #3992
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    No, I agree with that principle completely. It is the perception of church leadership touting that money when they are confronted with the question if they should be donating more from the vast reserves. IMO, it comes off as they (as church leadership) are trying to bolster that amount with fast offerings, in an effort to defend themselves against the larger question of what to do with billions in reserve. I'm not saying that's what they are trying to do, just that to me it comes across like that.
    So you don't really want to know how much they are actually spending on humanitarian aid. You just want to know how much of the reserve they are spending.
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  3. #3993

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commando View Post
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  4. #3994

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    So you don't really want to know how much they are actually spending on humanitarian aid. You just want to know how much of the reserve they are spending.
    I think it would be interesting to know both, wouldn't you?

  5. #3995

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I think it would be interesting to know both, wouldn't you?
    So are you going to quantify what would please you? How much should the Church have in reserves and what percentage of their reserve amount should they be spending?

  6. #3996

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    So are you going to quantify what would please you? How much should the Church have in reserves and what percentage of their reserve amount should they be spending?
    And for that matter, how much should any of us have? Seems to me the moment you throw that stone you open yourself up to a similar judgement by others.

  7. #3997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I think it would be interesting to know both, wouldn't you?
    I have always been a proponent of opening the books.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
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  8. #3998

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I think it would be interesting to know both, wouldn't you?
    Preface

    Maybe the following scenario can help. It is informed from my time as Bishop of an inner-city Ward, and by the fact my wife is currently Relief Society President of a Ward situated in the suburbs. In the inner-city Ward, on average 8 – 12 families received food assistance every two weeks. In the Ward in the suburbs, on average 3 – 8 families receive food assistance every two weeks.

    It is important to note food assistance includes boxed and canned goods, frozen meat, fresh seasonal vegetables and fruit, and week to week hygiene items (toothbrushes, toothpaste, tampons, pads, diapers, dish soap, laundry soap etc.) And for the sake of argument, let’s say a family of four’s weekly food bill is $220.

    Scenario

    A family in a tough situation due to any variety of circumstances (and who may not even be members of the church) meets with the Bishop and the Bishop decides he can best help the family by providing them with food assistance. He instructs the Relief Society president to meet with the head of the family, do a needs and resources assessment, and to fill out a food order form.

    The family takes the order form to the storehouse and fills the order themselves. Or, if at a distance from the storehouse as is the case in our Stake, the form is submitted via email (now an online form in an app) to the regional Bishop’s store house where the items are processed and bagged. The storehouse then ships the food order to a designated Ward house, where the family can pick it up.

    The money to pay for the food order comes directly from the Ward’s fast offering funds. If there are insufficient fast offering funds in that Ward, the money is taken from a pool of Ward fast offering funds in the Stake. If there are insufficient funds in the Stake it is taken from a regional fund ... etc. Those funds also in part pay for the Bishop’s Storehouse building (hydro, property taxes etc.) delivery trucks, and the larger distribution network to get the items to not only that storehouse but to all of the other store houses throughout the world.

    The distribution network

    This large distribution network that includes farms, processing and canning facilities is vast and world-wide. There are not enough fast offering funds to cover the cost of maintaining the distribution network that includes both salaried managers and workers along with unpaid volunteer missionaries. The distribution network, salaries and support for the missionary volunteers must be paid for using tithing funds. One of many things tithing funds are used for.

    How is this Welfare Program managed?

    The presiding Bishopric, along with assigned seventy’s manage it, under the direction of the quorum of the Twelve. They have many salaried individuals who run farms, processing and canning facilities, and who also work in all variety of capacities along the distribution network. At a regional level, Stake Presidents within geographic proximity meet monthly for regional welfare meetings and bring with them their senior Bishop (I attended these meetings). In each Stake, Bishops meet as a welfare council once a month.

    Insurance to protect and ensure the viability of this world-wide Welfare Program

    The continued viability of the church Welfare Program is protected by the potential billions of dollars the church has earned through investments by Ensign Peak.

    Note, this is only one aspect of church operations protected by the potential billions in reserve. It also protects missionary programs, universities, educational programs, counseling services etc.

    How is any surplus spent

    In addition to all of the above, the church partners with and funds humanitarian efforts in 195 countries. The reserve is not just sitting in an account accruing interest. It is blessing the lives of millions in a variety of ways.
    Last edited by tooblue; 02-21-2020 at 02:15 PM.

  9. #3999

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    Quote Originally Posted by imanihonjin View Post
    So are you going to quantify what would please you? How much should the Church have in reserves and what percentage of their reserve amount should they be spending?
    Nope. I don't pay tithing, and it's their ball and their rules. I still think it would be interesting to know more about its finances, however.

    But! If I was still an active member and I had it my way (and now having a better handle on the quantity of the church's reserves), I would remove the requirement of a fixed amount of tithing from the temple recommend process. I'd even still be OK with recommending 10% (to the church or just charity), but take out any punitive action for those who truly can't afford it. If you can't tell, that kind of stuck in my craw at one time...

  10. #4000

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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Preface

    Maybe the following scenario can help. It is informed from my time as Bishop of an inner-city Ward, and by the fact my wife is currently Relief Society President of a Ward situated in the suburbs. In the inner-city Ward, on average 8 – 12 families received food assistance every two weeks. In the Ward in the suburbs, on average 3 – 8 families receive food assistance every two weeks.

    It is important to note food assistance includes boxed and canned goods, frozen meat, fresh seasonal vegetables and fruit, and week to week hygiene items (toothbrushes, toothpaste, tampons, pads, diapers, dish soap, laundry soap etc.) And for the sake of argument, let’s say a family of four’s weekly food bill is $220.

    Scenario

    A family in a tough situation due to any variety of circumstances (and who may not even be members of the church) meets with the Bishop and the Bishop decides he can best help the family by providing them with food assistance. He instructs the Relief Society president to meet with the head of the family, do a needs and resources assessment, and to fill out a food order form.

    The family takes the order form to the storehouse and fills the order themselves. Or, if at a distance from the storehouse as is the case in our Stake, the form is submitted via email (now an online form in an app) to the regional Bishop’s store house where the items are processed and bagged. The storehouse then ships the food order to a designated Ward house, where the family can pick it up.

    The money to pay for the food order comes directly from the Ward’s fast offering funds. If there are insufficient fast offering funds in that Ward, the money is taken from a pool of Ward fast offering funds in the Stake. If there are insufficient funds in the Stake it is taken from a regional fund ... etc. Those funds also in part pay for the Bishop’s Storehouse building (hydro, property taxes etc.) delivery trucks, and the larger distribution network to get the items to not only that storehouse but to all of the other store houses throughout the world.

    The distribution network

    This large distribution network that includes farms, processing and canning facilities is vast and world-wide. There are not enough fast offering funds to cover the cost of maintaining the distribution network that includes both salaried managers and workers along with unpaid volunteer missionaries. The distribution network, salaries and support for the missionary volunteers must be paid for using tithing funds. One of many things tithing funds are used for.

    How is this Welfare Program managed?

    The presiding Bishopric, along with assigned seventy’s manage it, under the direction of the quorum of the Twelve. They have many salaried individuals who run farms, processing and canning facilities, and who also work in all variety of capacities along the distribution network. At a regional level, Stake Presidents within geographic proximity meet monthly for regional welfare meetings and bring with them their senior Bishop (I attended these meetings). In each Stake, Bishops meet as a welfare council once a month.

    Insurance to protect and ensure the viability of this world-wide Welfare Program

    The continued viability of the church Welfare Program is protected by the potential billions of dollars the church has earned through investments by Ensign Peak.

    Note, this is only one aspect of church operations protected by the potential billions in reserve. It also protects missionary programs, universities, educational programs, counseling services etc.

    How is any surplus spent

    In addition to all of the above, the church partners with and funds humanitarian efforts in 195 countries. The reserve is not just sitting in an account accruing interest. It is blessing the lives of millions in a variety of ways.
    I'm fully aware of the extent of the welfare system. As a child I was a beneficiary of it for years. I was also in a couple of inner city wards, where either I or my wife as RSP was aware of the needs of most of the members. It is a sacred program, and you'll never hear me speak ill of it.

    I was never a bishop nor privy to the connection of the welfare program to Ensign Peak, but I am skeptical of your claim that the extent of its investments are needed to protect the viability of the welfare program.

  11. #4001

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I'm fully aware of the extent of the welfare system. As a child I was a beneficiary of it for years. I was also in a couple of inner city wards, where either I or my wife as RSP was aware of the needs of most of the members. It is a sacred program, and you'll never hear me speak ill of it.

    I was never a bishop nor privy to the connection of the welfare program to Ensign Peak, but I am skeptical of your claim that the extent of its investments are needed to protect the viability of the welfare program.
    I am not privy to direct connections of the welfare program to Ensign Peak investments either, other than statements made by church officials that any endowment exists in order to protect not only that particular institution, but also to protect every institution the church has created. Welfare is only one program of a much larger mandate. Your unwillingness to connect the dots is disingenuous.

    The breadth of what the church is able to do is awe inspiring. It would be irresponsible if the church did not invest with the aim to guard against calamity, or anything that threatened those institutions and that mandate. This quibbling and the cynicism is befuddling.

  12. #4002

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    Here is where the $40 million/year comes from AFAIK. President Oaks gave a speech at Oxford in 2016, where he said:

    Care for the poor and needy is not optional or incidental in our Church. We do this worldwide. For example, in the year 2015 we had 177 emergency response projects in 56 countries. In addition, we had hundreds of projects that impacted more than a million people in seven other categories of assistance, such as clean water, immunization, and vision care. For more than 30 years the magnitude of these efforts has averaged about 40 million dollars a year.
    https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist...versity-oxford

    There was a DesNews article that followed: LDS Church welfare, humanitarian efforts average $40 million per year, apostle says

    This article summarized the above quote:

    In a lecture given last month at the University of Oxford, Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said that each year The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spends about $40 million on welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects around the world and has done so for more than 30 years.
    While Elder Oaks limited the $40M/yr number to covering "emergency response projects" and the "hundreds of projects," (and so left it open that additional money was spent on other charitable/welfare activities) the DesNews summary implied that all "welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects" over the last 30 years were covered by the $40M/year figure.
    Last edited by Lost Student; 02-21-2020 at 03:57 PM.
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  13. #4003
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  14. #4004

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    lori vallow should stay in jail until she produces her kids alive and well.
    I just heard about this story. This makes the Abducted in Plain Sight story seem downright tame by comparison.

    How many people are dead here? The two kids, current husband's last wife, last husband, husband #3 (although that was supposedly a heart attack, may want to exhume that body and look again) -- who am I missing? There was one other attempted murder.
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  15. #4005

    Default Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelado View Post
    And then a little longer because of her likely involvement in the deaths of her ex-husband and brother and new husband's first wife.
    I mean those kids are dead, so it would be tough to keep her there longer


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    Last edited by smokymountainrain; 02-22-2020 at 09:04 PM.
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  16. #4006
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokymountainrain View Post
    I mean those kids are dead, so it would be tough to keep her there longer


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    Yep I’m all for due process and civil rights but it is so freaking obvious she killed her kids — they have to at least try to put her in jail forever even if it’s a “circumstantial” case.

  17. #4007
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    Did everyone else get that nice email with a link to Latter-day Saint Charities 2019 Annual Report? It indicates a total of $2.3 billion in 197 countries since 1985.

    Here's a link to the report: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/...1.pdf?lang=eng

  18. #4008
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    https://www.distractify.com/p/dwight...mcmillions-now

    Spoiler Warning for McMillion$ (and HBO docuseries that you really should check out if you have the chance).

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    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/25/p...ose/index.html

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  20. #4010

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    Rc,s neighbor is in court today. When will the autopsy results be in for her fifth husbands first wife? Nate Eaton who has seen his podcasts? He was really in that ladies face. Was it to get answers or is he overbearing? And who that has been to a national park remembers everybody they see. You don,t notice the strangers by the thousands, hopefully the kids can be found,

    Those people were cooks I think.

  21. #4011
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    SALT LAKE CITY — Police arrested a Latter-day Saint missionary on Wednesday in Fremont, California, on suspicion of possessing and distributing child pornography, according to a Facebook release by the Mountain View Police Department in California’s Bay Area.
    The arrest of Hayden Hunter, 19, of Pleasant Grove, was part of an investigation by cyberdetectives that began in September 2019 after they received a tip about a Facebook Messenger group chat, according to the police post.
    Hunter was working in Fremont at the time of his arrest. Church leaders immediately released Hunter from his missionary calling, church spokesman Eric Hawkins said in a statement released Thursday.

    https://www.deseret.com/2020/3/5/211...ld-pornography

  22. #4012
    Senior Member BigFatMeanie's Avatar
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    So Lori Vallow/Daybell gets her bail reduced to $1M. I bet they can cough up $100K for a bond with the life insurance money they got. Either that or a bunch of their nutjob friends will cough up the money. I'll bet she bonds out in no time.

    If she does, she is required to wear electronic monitoring and to not go beyond a list of specific counties in Idaho.

  23. #4013
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigFatMeanie View Post
    So Lori Vallow/Daybell gets her bail reduced to $1M. I bet they can cough up $100K for a bond with the life insurance money they got. Either that or a bunch of their nutjob friends will cough up the money. I'll bet she bonds out in no time.

    If she does, she is required to wear electronic monitoring and to not go beyond a list of specific counties in Idaho.
    Does it have a tracker so they can follow her when she visits her children?
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  24. #4014

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Does it have a tracker so they can follow her when she visits her children's graves?
    I hope so.
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  25. #4015
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    I hope so.
    You read my mind, but I thought it too gauche.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  26. #4016

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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    You read my mind, but I thought it too gauche.
    I'm certainly not trying to make light of it. But we're all in agreement that those children were murdered.
    "Seriously, is there a bigger high on the whole face of the earth than eating a salad?"--SeattleUte
    "The only Ute to cause even half the nationwide hysteria of Jimmermania was Ted Bundy."--TripletDaddy
    This is a tough, NYC broad, a doctor who deals with bleeding organs, dying people and testicles on a regular basis without crying."--oxcoug
    "I'm not impressed (and I'm even into choreography . . .)"--Donuthole
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  27. #4017
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Student View Post
    I'm certainly not trying to make light of it. But we're all in agreement that those children were murdered.
    Yep. That's what it is, that is.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  28. #4018
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    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

    For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

    Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

  29. #4019
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Of course MSNBC uses "Mormon"

  30. #4020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Addison View Post
    Of course MSNBC uses "Mormon"
    yep. totally out to get us. -CB
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