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  • Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
    I lied. I am going to appeal to the ortho mo one more time today. I doubt the typical member sees the distinction creekster says president Nelson intentionally made. The living prophet referenced a previous prophet’s declaration. Whether or not Nelson sees a difference, I don’t think you will have a hard time finding members who see revelation from god working on him in this instance now.

    I agree that your position is reasonable, very much so. I am not arguing that your opinion is wrong. You seem to be taking it personally. I’m arguing that others have a different opinion. That’s what ortho mo arguments are made of.
    It is Ortho-motcojcolds. Show done respect. You are giving us Apostates a bad name.
    As I lead this army, make room for mistakes and depression
    --Kendrick Lamar

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
      This is a weird debate.

      I agree with creekster.
      It's a classic debate in Mormonism. The answer to "is it a revelation?" is "it depends on a lot of things". There are a lot of things revealed to the prophet that we no longer believe are revelations and a lot of things we believe are revelations that were not revealed to the prophet. So, it depends. If it supports the current doctrinal view of the church, which doctrinal view is kept semi-static but moves enough to make us not too weird in the world, then it's a revelation. If it no longer makes sense given the current doctrinal view or it makes us look really weird in the world, then it's not a revelation...and it usually labeled as the prophet speaking as a man (sometimes even when it's in GC) or if it's an apostle we discount it by saying it wasn't THE Prophet.

      It's this squirelliness that makes ex-mos so mad and allows for the church to move and evolve (slowly) to keep it relevant and alive. It also allows for the orthodox members to claim that the doctrine doesn't change. Kind of a win-win in my book.
      "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

      Comment


      • Originally posted by YOhio View Post
        While a ProgMo podcaster is annoying, at least they’re consistent and transparent. The guy playing ProgMo online while in real life being an orthodox member is both pathetic and contemptible.


        I'm not exactly an orthodox member IRL and I'm not sure what gave you that impression.
        "Discipleship is not a spectator sport. We cannot expect to experience the blessing of faith by standing inactive on the sidelines any more than we can experience the benefits of health by sitting on a sofa watching sporting events on television and giving advice to the athletes. And yet for some, “spectator discipleship” is a preferred if not primary way of worshipping." -Pres. Uchtdorf

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
          It's a classic debate in Mormonism. The answer to "is it a revelation?" is "it depends on a lot of things". There are a lot of things revealed to the prophet that we no longer believe are revelations and a lot of things we believe are revelations that were not revealed to the prophet. So, it depends. If it supports the current doctrinal view of the church, which doctrinal view is kept semi-static but moves enough to make us not too weird in the world, then it's a revelation. If it no longer makes sense given the current doctrinal view or it makes us look really weird in the world, then it's not a revelation...and it usually labeled as the prophet speaking as a man (sometimes even when it's in GC) or if it's an apostle we discount it by saying it wasn't THE Prophet.

          It's this squirelliness that makes ex-mos so mad and allows for the church to move and evolve (slowly) to keep it relevant and alive. It also allows for the orthodox members to claim that the doctrine doesn't change. Kind of a win-win in my book.
          That is an incredibly cynical take.
          "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
          "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
          "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
            It's a classic debate in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. The answer to "is it a revelation?" is "it depends on a lot of things". There are a lot of things revealed to the prophet that we no longer believe are revelations and a lot of things we believe are revelations that were not revealed to the prophet. So, it depends. If it supports the current doctrinal view of the church, which doctrinal view is kept semi-static but moves enough to make us not too weird in the world, then it's a revelation. If it no longer makes sense given the current doctrinal view or it makes us look really weird in the world, then it's not a revelation...and it usually labeled as the prophet speaking as a man (sometimes even when it's in GC) or if it's an apostle we discount it by saying it wasn't THE Prophet.

            It's this squirelliness that makes ex-mos so mad and allows for the church to move and evolve (slowly) to keep it relevant and alive. It also allows for the orthodox members to claim that the doctrine doesn't change. Kind of a win-win in my book.
            fify
            “Every player dreams of being a Yankee, and if they don’t it’s because they never got the chance.” Aroldis Chapman

            Comment


            • Dr. Prophet Russell Nelson is an amazing, wonderful man but anybody who thinks the Creator of the Universe told him we shouldn’t call ourselves Mormons is completely nuts and living in an insane fantasy world.

              Sorry, just trying to help.

              Comment


              • It’s not a foyer thread until Cardiac mentions the ridiculousness of believing a tenet of the restored church of Jesus Christ.
                "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                - SeattleUte

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Moliere View Post
                  It's a classic debate in Mormonism. The answer to "is it a revelation?" is "it depends on a lot of things". There are a lot of things revealed to the prophet that we no longer believe are revelations and a lot of things we believe are revelations that were not revealed to the prophet. So, it depends. If it supports the current doctrinal view of the church, which doctrinal view is kept semi-static but moves enough to make us not too weird in the world, then it's a revelation. If it no longer makes sense given the current doctrinal view or it makes us look really weird in the world, then it's not a revelation...and it usually labeled as the prophet speaking as a man (sometimes even when it's in GC) or if it's an apostle we discount it by saying it wasn't THE Prophet.

                  It's this squirelliness that makes ex-mos so mad and allows for the church to move and evolve (slowly) to keep it relevant and alive. It also allows for the orthodox members to claim that the doctrine doesn't change. Kind of a win-win in my book.
                  Revelation always has been and always will be a messy, imperfect process. It is messy because it involves humans and that messiness is part of what makes it interesting, IMO. Of course people are going to interpret things subjectively. So what? That is human nature 101. If this rebranding issue bothers you, just ignore it. You may call that "squirelliness" and it might make you mad (you aren't fooling anyone), but my goodness, there are so many beautiful, empowering things about the gospel that it seems crazy to me to get worked up over stuff like this.
                  "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                  "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                  "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                  Comment


                  • Dear President Bednar,

                    We missionaries in the field have been having an interesting conversation this week regarding the declaration from President Nelson.

                    Let me get this straight...

                    • We're a restored Gospel whose mission it is to fill the whole Earth with the truth of the Nature of God, restored keys, and present-day divine guidance.
                    • We're lead by a living Prophet whom the Lord will Kill before He let's the prophet lead the church astray.
                    • Sexplotation through polygamy and Racist discrimination are the fruits of our past Prophets leadership. (Matthew 7:16, Amos 3:7)
                    • The church has built an international brand as strong and recognizable as Coca-Cola, IBM, or Apple over the last 180 years.
                    • For more than 100 years we have sent missionaries all around the Globe in an effort to promote our righteous cause and buttress the brand.
                    • Now we're supposed to abandon our brand name of Mormonism?
                    • What about all the missionaries with Mormon Tattoo's?


                    It seems that someone at the top should take a marketing class, or at least you should call Clayton Christensen to the twelve ASAP. You don't just change your name nullifying your brand recognition willy-nilly without taking a huge hit for credibility. Credibility desperately needed in a era when the Church is already diverging from the social norm now, more than ever. A church led by Christ and directed through prophets should be able to foresee the pot holes ahead and not ruin the alignment on our steering wheels.

                    Sorry for the sour letter this week, but I'm just reporting the words on the street as you oft like to hear. Myself - I'm still leading my district with an iron fist and having the elders pass off their disco's word perfect once a month. We're behind you 100%, but it feels like nobody is really sure what the next best move is.

                    All the best to Sister Bednar,

                    Elder clackamascoug
                    Last edited by clackamascoug; 08-18-2018, 07:39 AM.

                    When poet puts pen to paper imagination breathes life, finding hearth and home.
                    -Mid Summer's Night Dream

                    Comment


                    • Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

                      Elder Clackagoof

                      No more discos, Elder. Knock off that heresy, it has been revealed that all discos are from Satan. You force word for word recitation to your own damnation.

                      God.




                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      Last edited by Flystripper; 08-18-2018, 10:49 AM.
                      Dyslexics are teople poo...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by clackamascoug View Post
                        Dear President Bednar,

                        We missionaries in the field have been having an interesting conversation this week regarding the declaration from President Nelson.

                        Let me get this straight...

                        • We're a restored Gospel whose mission it is to fill the whole Earth with the truth of the Nature of God, restored keys, and present-day divine guidance.
                        • We're lead by a living Prophet whom the Lord will Kill before He let's the prophet lead the church astray.
                        • Sexplotation through polygamy and Racist discrimination are the fruits of our past Prophets leadership. (Matthew 7:16, Amos 3:7)
                        • The church has built an international brand as strong and recognizable as Coca-Cola, IBM, or Apple over the last 180 years.
                        • For more than 100 years we have sent missionaries all around the Globe in an effort to promote our righteous cause and buttress the brand.
                        • Now we're supposed to abandon our brand name of Mormonism?
                        • What about all the missionaries with Mormon Tattoo's?


                        It seems that someone at the top should take a marketing class, or at least you should call Clayton Christensen to the twelve ASAP. You don't just change your name nullifying your brand recognition willy-nilly without taking a huge hit for credibility. Credibility desperately needed in a era when the Church is already diverging from the social norm now, more than ever. A church led by Christ and directed through prophets should be able to foresee the pot holes ahead and not ruin the alignment on our steering wheels.

                        Sorry for the sour letter this week, but I'm just reporting the words on the street as you oft like to hear. Myself - I'm still leading my district with an iron fist and having the elders pass off their disco's word perfect once a month. We're behind you 100%, but it feels like nobody is really sure what the next best move is.

                        All the best to Sister Bednar,

                        Elder clackamascoug
                        Wow. The tone of these emails has really changed over the years. I think you should consider changing it to: "Dear John Dehlin".
                        "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
                        "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
                        "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

                        Comment


                        • I always love reading Elder clack's reports. Someone should compile them in a book.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by clackamascoug View Post
                            Dear President Bednar,

                            We missionaries in the field have been having an interesting conversation this week regarding the declaration from President Nelson.

                            Let me get this straight...

                            • We're a restored Gospel whose mission it is to fill the whole Earth with the truth of the Nature of God, restored keys, and present-day divine guidance.
                            • We're lead by a living Prophet whom the Lord will Kill before He let's the prophet lead the church astray.
                            • Sexplotation through polygamy and Racist discrimination are the fruits of our past Prophets leadership. (Matthew 7:16, Amos 3:7)
                            • The church has built an international brand as strong and recognizable as Coca-Cola, IBM, or Apple over the last 180 years.
                            • For more than 100 years we have sent missionaries all around the Globe in an effort to promote our righteous cause and buttress the brand.
                            • Now we're supposed to abandon our brand name of Mormonism?
                            • What about all the missionaries with Mormon Tattoo's?


                            It seems that someone at the top should take a marketing class, or at least you should call Clayton Christensen to the twelve ASAP. You don't just change your name nullifying your brand recognition willy-nilly without taking a huge hit for credibility. Credibility desperately needed in a era when the Church is already diverging from the social norm now, more than ever. A church led by Christ and directed through prophets should be able to foresee the pot holes ahead and not ruin the alignment on our steering wheels.

                            Sorry for the sour letter this week, but I'm just reporting the words on the street as you oft like to hear. Myself - I'm still leading my district with an iron fist and having the elders pass off their disco's word perfect once a month. We're behind you 100%, but it feels like nobody is really sure what the next best move is.

                            All the best to Sister Bednar,

                            Elder clackamascoug
                            As an employee of International Business Machines, I object to you equating the Mormon brand to ours.
                            "The mind is not a boomerang. If you throw it too far it will not come back." ~ Tom McGuane

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Non Sequitur View Post
                              As an employee of International Business Machines, I object to you equating the Mormon brand to ours.
                              Fair Point. IBM's public prominence has slipped a lot the last few years.
                              PLesa excuse the tpyos.

                              Comment


                              • Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

                                Nice villain pic chosen by the NYT:

                                My favorite of the comments I read:
                                “We are no longer the knights who say Ni! We are now the knights who say ekki-ekki-ekki-pitang-zoom-boing!"
                                Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                                There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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