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  • #46
    Originally posted by wally View Post
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...11072125138740

    Little kids playing football have not the mass nor the velocity to do CTE type damage to themselves very easily.
    I'll agree that little kids aren't going to do themselves long-term damage, but the idea that your average high school player isn't going to suffer long-term consequences is a myth. I come across studies literally every week (it's a hot topic right now) indicating that the risk to high school football players is as great or greater than to college/pro players. Here's just one of a very large number:
    http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/35/7/1075.abstract

    The problem is partially due to poor medical supervision, which can improve, but really to a limit. Delta High School is never going to have a trainer or doctor well-trained in sports medicine or head injury restrictions, not to mention that the guidelines for return-to-play are still very up in the air, even for those who stay current on them. Additionally, poor technique and coaching contributes to higher risk behavior. It's a problem that's not going away any time soon.
    At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
    -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
      I'll agree that little kids aren't going to do themselves long-term damage, but the idea that your average high school player isn't going to suffer long-term consequences is a myth. I come across studies literally every week (it's a hot topic right now) indicating that the risk to high school football players is as great or greater than to college/pro players. Here's just one of a very large number:
      http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/35/7/1075.abstract

      The problem is partially due to poor medical supervision, which can improve, but really to a limit. Delta High School is never going to have a trainer or doctor well-trained in sports medicine or head injury restrictions, not to mention that the guidelines for return-to-play are still very up in the air, even for those who stay current on them. Additionally, poor technique and coaching contributes to higher risk behavior. It's a problem that's not going away any time soon.
      If we are talking strictly about high school aged players, then let's also talk about other high risk activities high schoolers engage in , driving for instance. Is football more dangerous than teenage driving? I don't know. I am guessing (and might be wrong) that teenage driving is significantly more dangerous to a teenagers health than football. Yet, we put our children in cars as soon as they turn 16 for our own convenience.

      Are we getting carried away in the fashionable crusade for protecting kids when the most dangerous risks are right in front of us? The benefit of teenage driving is more autonomy for the parent and the child. Presumably a parent weighs the risk versus the benefit and makes a decision. What are the benefits of football? Are they worth the risk? Is there a great disparity between these two risk-benefit analyses?


      Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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      • #48
        Originally posted by wally View Post
        If we are talking strictly about high school aged players, then let's also talk about other high risk activities high schoolers engage in , driving for instance. Is football more dangerous than teenage driving? I don't know. I am guessing (and might be wrong) that teenage driving is significantly more dangerous to a teenagers health than football. Yet, we put our children in cars as soon as they turn 16 for our own convenience.

        Are we getting carried away in the fashionable crusade for protecting kids when the most dangerous risks are right in front of us? The benefit of teenage driving is more autonomy for the parent and the child. Presumably a parent weighs the risk versus the benefit and makes a decision. What are the benefits of football? Are they worth the risk? Is there a great disparity between these two risk-benefit analyses?


        Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
        Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not advocating that it be banned. I just think kids and parents need to be aware that this is not a risk isolated to the NFL, as seems to be the common perception.

        Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
        At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
        -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
          Yeah, that's a good point. I'm not advocating that it be banned. I just think kids and parents need to be aware that this is not a risk isolated to the NFL, as seems to be the common perception.

          Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
          Word.

          Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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          • #50
            A physical medicine and rehab physician I work seems to think that the speed football played on artificial turf has contributed to the problem, increasingly so as more and more high schools are converting their natural turf to artificial.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Paperback Writer View Post
              I was hoping someone with a rugby background would wiegh in as I've never played rugby and am not familar with the equipment/gear. I would guess the shoulder pads would be different as well between football and rugby. Without all the protective gear, those hard hits that result in concussions and other serious injury would be reduced.
              For the most part protective equipment in rugby consists of a sturdy sweater and shorts. Front and second-row players tape their ears to prevent cauliflower-ear.


              The helmet equivalent is a scrum cap which has evolved from ear protection

              to provide some cushioning.

              Their use is not required and very few professionals wear them on a regular basis. As you can see they differ significantly from American football helmets.

              The use of shoulder pads is probably more common, but the amount of protection they provide is minimal c/w football.


              I think equipment has some bearing on the potential decrease in head injuries. Rules also help: A tackler must wrap up or it is a penalty; no first downs so no real benefit of stopping anyone short of anything but the goal line.
              "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

              "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

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              • #52
                Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                I'll agree that little kids aren't going to do themselves long-term damage, but the idea that your average high school player isn't going to suffer long-term consequences is a myth. I come across studies literally every week (it's a hot topic right now) indicating that the risk to high school football players is as great or greater than to college/pro players. Here's just one of a very large number:
                http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/35/7/1075.abstract

                The problem is partially due to poor medical supervision, which can improve, but really to a limit. Delta High School is never going to have a trainer or doctor well-trained in sports medicine or head injury restrictions, not to mention that the guidelines for return-to-play are still very up in the air, even for those who stay current on them. Additionally, poor technique and coaching contributes to higher risk behavior. It's a problem that's not going away any time soon.
                Almost every high school I've ever worked a game at, including Delta, had a qualified trainer. Also most coaching staffs have at least one coach that has been through training on dealing with concussions. I went through the training as both a coach and an official. There is a protocol in place to deal with concussions mandated by UHSAA. Any player in the Wasatch Front at the high school level or below, who is suspected of suffering a concussion, can't return as a player until a qualified physician clears them to play. While I'm sure there is abuse most of the time the protocol is following stringently.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Shaka View Post
                  Almost every high school I've ever worked a game at, including Delta, had a qualified trainer. Also most coaching staffs have at least one coach that has been through training on dealing with concussions. I went through the training as both a coach and an official. There is a protocol in place to deal with concussions mandated by UHSAA. Any player in the Wasatch Front at the high school level or below, who is suspected of suffering a concussion, can't return as a player until a qualified physician clears them to play. While I'm sure there is abuse most of the time the protocol is following stringently.
                  Lol. I feel nervous about clearing athletes following head injuries and I went to medical school, evaluate head trauma as an every day part of my job, and have taken a special interest in the subject. But I'm glad you and Delta's trainer feel comfortable with it!

                  Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
                  At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                  -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                    Lol. I feel nervous about clearing athletes following head injuries and I went to medical school, evaluate head trauma as an every day part of my job, and have taken a special interest in the subject. But I'm glad you and Delta's trainer feel comfortable with it!

                    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
                    I think everyone knows you're a doc. I also appreciate the condescension. The point is there are qualified athletic trainers at most high school and little league football games. Also most high schools have a doctor who attends their games.

                    Those who control amateur football, at least in this state, are doing a decent job addressing the problem.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Shaka View Post
                      I think everyone knows you're a doc. I also appreciate the condescension. The point is there are qualified athletic trainers at most high school and little league football games. Also most high schools have a doctor who attends their games.

                      Those who control amateur football, at least in this state, are doing a decent job addressing the problem.
                      We had a trainer and a doctor on our sideline (he was my ortho). They also always had an ambulance with paramedics at the field.
                      "Nobody listens to Turtle."
                      -Turtle
                      sigpic

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Surfah View Post
                        We had a trainer and a doctor on our sideline (he was my ortho). They also always had an ambulance with paramedics at the field.
                        There are paramedics at all the games too. Most little league venues also have paramedics on game day.

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                        • #57
                          I was just going to say that generally the field doctors are orthopedic surgeons, who are not required to have ANY special training in head injury evaluation or clearance. Some have it through sports medicine fellowships (or special interest), but they're also not going to be working in Delta, UT.
                          Paramedics. Lol.
                          The key factor here isn't even necessarily the on-the-field doctor, since once there is any concern about a concussion, that player better not be returning to the game (I've seen this happen several times, by the way). It's the return to play later on. That's where things can get really problematic without qualified personnel.

                          I think I'll bow out here.
                          At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                          -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                            I was just going to say that generally the field doctors are orthopedic surgeons, who are not required to have ANY special training in head injury evaluation or clearance. Some have it through sports medicine fellowships (or special interest), but they're also not going to be working in Delta, UT.
                            Paramedics. Lol.
                            The key factor here isn't even necessarily the on-the-field doctor, since once there is any concern about a concussion, that player better not be returning to the game (I've seen this happen several times, by the way). It's the return to play later on. That's where things can get really problematic without qualified personnel.

                            I think I'll bow out here.
                            I've covered several games by virtue of being at one of my kids games. I'll be the first to admit that I have very little training in head injuries. I know what to look for as far as severe trauma. Regarding concussions, if a kid has any symptoms they come out. I don't consider putting them back in. I tell their parents that they need to see an MD who has training in closed head injuries/concussions. That is the hard decision, when is it safe (enough) to play again.
                            "You interns are like swallows. You shit all over my patients for six weeks and then fly off."

                            "Don't be sorry, it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I think I just found the solution to this problem, and it comes from SWEDEN of all places!

                              http://jalopnik.com/swedes-develop-i...ium=socialflow
                              Dio perdona tante cose per un’opera di misericordia
                              God forgives many things for an act of mercy
                              Alessandro Manzoni

                              Knock it off. This board has enough problems without a dose of middle-age lechery.

                              pelagius

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by pellegrino View Post
                                I think I just found the solution to this problem, and it comes from SWEDEN of all places!

                                http://jalopnik.com/swedes-develop-i...ium=socialflow
                                You dropped a lot of knowledge there too. Cars ARE so yesterday and bikes ARE the future!!!!

                                It is an interesting idea. It seems like it would be most popular in cold areas.

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