Richard Bushman – Helping Those in Doubt

[Flystripper]

No, it takes me about an hour to run my daily 10 miles. So the podcast length worked out well and even left me time to get some transcription done on my iPhone during the last 11 minutes of my run.

please sign up for the holiday running challenge. TIA

[PaloAltoCougar]

No, it takes me about an hour to run my daily 10 miles. So the podcast length worked out well and even left me time to get some transcription done on my iPhone during the last 11 minutes of my run.

You're running six-minute miles? I couldn't be more impressed (or, I suppose, incredulous...).

[falafel]

No, it takes me about an hour to run my daily 10 miles. So the podcast length worked out well and even left me time to get some transcription done on my iPhone during the last 11 minutes of my run.

Running? I thought you called it speed walking?

[LA Ute]

You're running six-minute miles? I couldn't be more impressed (or, I suppose, incredulous...).

I don't like to brag, but that just slipped out.

Running? I thought you called it speed walking?

It's aerobic walking and I am pretty doggone fast.

please sign up for the holiday running challenge. TIA

No.

[Flystripper]

I want to see a six minute aerobic walking mile...cue Benny Hill music

[LA Ute]

Some more:

So long as you have a feeling that if you really look at everything, that if you turned over every rock, you might be shocked with what you found, you don’t have a secure testimony. Until you can look at everything squarely you really are on shaky ground.

[Katy Lied]

Well I enjoyed it.

[scottie]

I want to see a six minute aerobic walking mile...cue Benny Hill music

Benny Hill references are always funny.

[LA Ute]

Well I enjoyed it.

[Commando]

I love podcasts and I love Bushman. This sounds like it's right up my alley.

[jay santos]

Listened to it. If you're read or heard anything from Bushman the last several years, it's nothing new. "we need to be gentle with people with faith crisis, some of this historical stuff really appears to be messed up, some people freak out when they hear it for the first time in their 20's and 30's, they feel lied to, we should be more open about it and hit kids when they're younger, when we hear these difficult things for example why the B of A text is not what is on the scrolls in Egyptian, we can think about what it means to be a prophet, and get a more mature meaning, do they make mistakes, does God allow them to, etc, etc." It's a great message as far as being tolerant to those in faith crisis. I'm still processing what he and Terryl Givens and others like them are saying in terms of their belief. I'm not sure if they're saying, "Joseph made it up, but he made up something wonderful, and I'm committed to it." or are they saying "it's really weird how it all got revealed, but God truly revealed it to Joseph and, and Joseph truly is a prophet." Or maybe these two just run together, and I'm too black and white to make sense of it.

[Paperback Writer]

Listened to it. If you're read or heard anything from Bushman the last several years, it's nothing new. "we need to be gentle with people with faith crisis, some of this historical stuff really appears to be messed up, some people freak out when they hear it for the first time in their 20's and 30's, they feel lied to, we should be more open about it and hit kids when they're younger, when we hear these difficult things for example why the B of A text is not what is on the scrolls in Egyptian, we can think about what it means to be a prophet, and get a more mature meaning, do they make mistakes, does God allow them to, etc, etc." It's a great message as far as being tolerant to those in faith crisis. I'm still processing what he and Terryl Givens and others like them are saying in terms of their belief. I'm not sure if they're saying, "Joseph made it up, but he made up something wonderful, and I'm committed to it." or are they saying "it's really weird how it all got revealed, but God truly revealed it to Joseph and, and Joseph truly is a prophet." Or maybe these two just run together, and I'm too black and white to make sense of it.

IMO, Bushman is leaving things open ended on purpose. As he has stated there's a lot more gray than black and white in history. For instance, what if Joseph was a prophet and received some things via revelation (even if some things were really weird on how they were revealed) and other things were made up. And still other things were revealed, like the WofW, but then reinterpreted by future prophets. I like Bushman's plea for "gentleness" and understanding not just with those having a faith crisis but with those trying to find their own path in the church.

[Sleeping in EQ]

IMO, Bushman is leaving things open ended on purpose. As he has stated there's a lot more gray than black and white in history. For instance, what if Joseph was a prophet and received some things via revelation (even if some things were really weird on how they were revealed) and other things were made up. And still other things were revealed, like the WofW, but then reinterpreted by future prophets. I like Bushman's plea for "gentleness" and understanding not just with those having a faith crisis but with those trying to find their own path in the church.

Agreed. Also, I can't help but notice that his approach to "gray" and prophetic fallibility resonates throughout Mormondom. For the most part, our Church has been more tone deaf on these things than have the RLDS, CoC, Restorationist Branches, Hedrickites, and so on.

I'm glad to see that these ideas are moving out of exclusive, scholarly circles. It will be interesting to see their increasing collisions with correlation.

[Pelado]

Despite the alarm, the archbishop’s remarks were rather tame. He told an audience at Bristol Cathedral that there were moments where he wondered, “Is there a God? Where is God?” Then, asked specifically if he harbored doubts, he responded, “It is a really good question. ... The other day I was praying over something as I was running, and I ended up saying to God, ‘Look, this is all very well, but isn’t it about time you did something, if you’re there?’ Which is probably not what the archbishop of Canterbury should say.”

The London-based Muslim scholar Mufti Abdur-Rahman went straight to Twitter: “I cannot believe this.” The Australian atheist columnist Peter FitzSimons tweeted, “VICTORY!” The “Daily Show” account joked, “Archbishop of Canterbury admits doubts about existence of God. Adds: ‘But atheism doesn’t pay them bills, sooo ...”’

If we don’t accept both the commonality and importance of doubt, we don’t allow for the possibility of mistakes or misjudgments. While certainty frequently calcifies into rigidity, intolerance and self-righteousness, doubt can deepen, clarify and explain. This is, of course, a subject far broader than belief in God.

The philosopher Bertrand Russell put it best. The whole problem with the world, he wrote, is that “the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Of that at least we can be certain. I’m pretty sure, anyway.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/26/op...aith.html?_r=1

[Pelado]

Many people I know, including some very gifted ministers, have struggled with such doubts. So did C.S. Lewis, the greatest apologist for the Christian faith in the 20th century. (The doubts came in the immediate aftermath of the death of his wife Joy Davidman.) And one of the formative figures in my own Christian pilgrimage, Malcolm Muggeridge, told William F. Buckley, Jr., “I rather believe in doubt. It’s sometimes thought that it’s the antithesis of faith, but I think it’s connected with faith – something that actually St. Augustine said – like, you know, reinforced concrete and you have those strips of metal in the concrete which make it stronger.”

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/20...ith-and-doubt/