What Are You Reading Now?

[LA Ute]

Actually I think it Sherman finally capturing Atlanta, sorry Wuap, that had the most effect on the '64 election. Sherman didn't come out at Savanah until Christmas time '64 - so the election was long over.

Correct. I was using "march to the sea" sloppily!

Adding to El Duderino's point about "what if," I highly recommend April 1865, by Jay Winik. It's a quick read and is a fascinating summary of the key events in that one month and how they influenced the outcome (and probably the next 100 years of American history).

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/April-1865-Month-Saved-America/dp/0060187239"]Amazon.com: April 1865: The Month That Saved America (9780060187231): Jay Winik: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51T8RS0ERDL.@@AMEPARAM@@51T8RS0ERDL[/ame]

[happyone]

What if Jubal Early had reached the outskirts of Washington one day earlier (before the union reinforcements showed up from the Richmond area) and was able to torch all of the Union supply dumps and warehouses, not to mention scare the daylights out of all of the residents in the city? That could have tipped the scales also with the election.

You can point to a bunch of these things and play the what-if game.

You sure can - On Gettysburg proper, I guess my three favorite what ifs are:

1 - What if Ewell had taken Lee's "suggestion" and taken Culp's Hill the evening of July 1st - thus making the Union line of Cemetary ridge untenable

2 - What if Sickles hadn't advanced his Corps into the Peach Orchard - thus inadvertantly creating a defense in depth situation, and the attacks on the second hadn't had to fight through Sickle's Corp to get to the left of the Union line on Cemetary Ridge and Little Round Top.

3 - What if Lee had taken Longstreets suggestion and not fought at Gettysburg and went around the left and forced Meade to attack him on ground of Lees choosing

Bringing this back to books, for an alternative history of Gettysburg and the end of the Civil War, I think Gingrich and Forstchen triolgy - Gettysburg, Grant Comes East, Never Call Retreat - that uses scenario #3 is really pretty good.

[Surfah]

Do they have a shrine where Stonewall was shot?

Yes. They have a monument there. He was shot right next to where the visitors center is near the entrance to the battlefield. There is another shrine though south of us in Guinea Station where he finally died.

Having all of the Civil War history right here around me is the best part about living in Fredericksburg. Salem Church is literally right down the street. Marye's Heights is just a few miles away along with Fredericksburg Battlefield. Our stake center is located in Ferry Farm where George Washington lived.

The battlefields are awesome. Not Gettysburg, but still a very solemn, tranquil place. But not so hallowed that I feel bad running there. It is very cool though to see miles of trenches. Whenever I am there I am always amazed how long and numerous they are and what kind of work that must have required.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes. They have a monument there. He was shot right next to where the visitors center is near the entrance to the battlefield. There is another shrine though south of us in Guinea Station where he finally died.

Having all of the Civil War history right here around me is the best part about living in Fredericksburg. Salem Church is literally right down the street. Marye's Heights is just a few miles away along with Fredericksburg Battlefield. Our stake center is located in Ferry Farm where George Washington lived.

The battlefields are awesome. Not Gettysburg, but still a very solemn, tranquil place. But not so hallowed that I feel bad running there. It is very cool though to see miles of trenches. Whenever I am there I am always amazed how long and numerous they are and what kind of work that must have required.

I always wondered what happened to those poor saps from NC that shot Stonewall. They may as well have crucified Jesus. Does it say anything in the visitors center about that?

I need to pay you a visit sometime. I would love to see all of that.

[happyone]

Yes. They have a monument there. He was shot right next to where the visitors center is near the entrance to the battlefield. There is another shrine though south of us in Guinea Station where he finally died.

Having all of the Civil War history right here around me is the best part about living in Fredericksburg. Salem Church is literally right down the street. Marye's Heights is just a few miles away along with Fredericksburg Battlefield. Our stake center is located in Ferry Farm where George Washington lived.

The battlefields are awesome. Not Gettysburg, but still a very solemn, tranquil place. But not so hallowed that I feel bad running there. It is very cool though to see miles of trenches. Whenever I am there I am always amazed how long and numerous they are and what kind of work that must have required.

As you might imagine, I loved visiting the Civil War Battlefields when I went out and saw my brothers 10 yrs ago. Nothing compares to Gettysburg, but Chancellorsville/Wilderness and Antetiem are very good. When we went to Chancellorsville we were able to piggyback with some Army Officers doing a terrian walk of the battlefield - that was really interesting. They had a guide from the Army history dept doing the explaining - much more in depth than your standard NPS tour.

I've got to get out and visit my brother again

[Surfah]

I always wondered what happened to those poor saps from NC that shot Stonewall. They may as well have crucified Jesus. Does it say anything in the visitors center about that?

I need to pay you a visit sometime. I would love to see all of that.

I don't recall anything said of those soldiers. But yes, Lane's men must have been beside themselves.

[Eddie]

You sure can - On Gettysburg proper, I guess my three favorite what ifs are:

1 - What if Ewell had taken Lee's "suggestion" and taken Culp's Hill the evening of July 1st - thus making the Union line of Cemetary ridge untenable

2 - What if Sickles hadn't advanced his Corps into the Peach Orchard - thus inadvertantly creating a defense in depth situation, and the attacks on the second hadn't had to fight through Sickle's Corp to get to the left of the Union line on Cemetary Ridge and Little Round Top.

3 - What if Lee had taken Longstreets suggestion and not fought at Gettysburg and went around the left and forced Meade to attack him on ground of Lees choosing

Bringing this back to books, for an alternative history of Gettysburg and the end of the Civil War, I think Gingrich and Forstchen triolgy - Gettysburg, Grant Comes East, Never Call Retreat - that uses scenario #3 is really pretty good.

On your #3 - I thought part of Longstreets suggestion wasn't simply to move around to the left and force Meade to attack on different ground, but that if part of the army moved around to the left there was nothing defending the rear of the Union army and they could've come up behind the Union lines during battle and really made a mess.

Another what if - what if Stuart had been doing his job and Lee had had any idea of where the Union army was prior to actually engaging them. What if he had been able to chose the battlefield to a degree - and known what he was facing.

[happyone]

On your #3 - I thought part of Longstreets suggestion wasn't simply to move around to the left and force Meade to attack on different ground, but that if part of the army moved around to the left there was nothing defending the rear of the Union army and they could've come up behind the Union lines during battle and really made a mess.

Another what if - what if Stuart had been doing his job and Lee had had any idea of where the Union army was prior to actually engaging them. What if he had been able to chose the battlefield to a degree - and known what he was facing.

On the night of the 1st, Longstreet advised Lee to move to left, find good ground between Meade and Washington and that would force Meade to attack him. Lee's reply, and this is a paraphrase, was that since the enemy was here, I will fight him here. Longstreet was a big proponant of the stratagic offense, tatical defense plan for the invasion.

Longstreet made preliminary plans to attack the Union rear by swinging around Big Round Top on the night of the 2nd, however he didn't consult Lee and Lee overrode him and Picketts charge was the result.

As far as Stuart goes - he was a typical glory hungry Cavalry General. That said I've read that Lee still had half of his total available Cav with him - Some experts think that should have been enough for the recon mission. There is no question however that it would have been much better for Stuart to have been available.

[happyone]

Finished Bloodlands - Can't say that I enjoyed it, but is was both a fascinating a very disturbing read. The author is a history professor at Yale and the book is very well researched with a lot of personal stories.

He looks at the area both the Nazi's and the Soviets controlled at sometime during WW II. Basically that is Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic states with a little bit of western Russia thrown in. He then looks at what the respective rulers did to the populations - the starvation of the Kulaks in the Ukraine '32-'33 - appox 3 million dead, the great purge in the USSR in '37-38 - 700,000 dead, what both the Germans and Soviets did to Poles between '39-'41 about 600,000 between the Soviets and the Nazis and finally the Soviet/German war from '41-'48 (including the ethnic cleansing of Poland, Belarus and the Ukraine after the war). Hitler had some 9 million killed, including 5+ million Jews in the death camps. In some ways it is a difficult book to read - the descriptions of the great famine are heartrending as are his descriptions of the siege of Leningrad.

The author makes a distinction between the concentration camps like Dachau, Bergin-Belson, the Gulag and the death camps like Sobibor and Treblinka. In the concentration camps the victims were basically worked/starved to death, in the death camps they didn't even have barracks for them, the vast majority were killed immediately on arrival.

The author uses diaries and personal recollections to great effect - It makes the story even more ghastly than just the raw numbers

Some facts

The final solution went through 4 stages and in only the last stage where the Jew exterminated - in the other 3 they were expelled from the German controlled territory - first to Madagascar, then to the Soviet Union, and finally to the West. When those three solutions became unworkable the extermination solution was adopted

The Treblinka death camp was closed in '43 because they had basically run out of Polish Jews to kill.

Between them, Hilter and Stalin had appox 14 million people killed in the bloodlands

The author divides the book into three sections -
before WWII - Stalin killed more people than Hitler by several orders of magintude
the joint Soviet/Nazi occuption of Poland - Stalin and Hitler killed about the same number of people
the Soviet/German War and aftermath - Hiltler killed more people than Stalin by several orders of magnitude

There were days that more Soviet POWs died in German control than US/British POW died in the whole war.

The personal stories the author found makes this a very heartrending read.

All that said I would say this is a must read for students of WW II

Currently reading Scorecasting. I hope it is much, much lighter read.

[Portland Ute]

Yes. They have a monument there. He was shot right next to where the visitors center is near the entrance to the battlefield. There is another shrine though south of us in Guinea Station where he finally died.

Having all of the Civil War history right here around me is the best part about living in Fredericksburg. Salem Church is literally right down the street. Marye's Heights is just a few miles away along with Fredericksburg Battlefield. Our stake center is located in Ferry Farm where George Washington lived.

The battlefields are awesome. Not Gettysburg, but still a very solemn, tranquil place. But not so hallowed that I feel bad running there. It is very cool though to see miles of trenches. Whenever I am there I am always amazed how long and numerous they are and what kind of work that must have required.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel they are less hallowed?

[CardiacCoug]

You really DON'T thoroughly study my posts!
http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...&postcount=611
http://cougaruteforum.com/showpost.p...&postcount=628

Great book--I'm surprised more on here haven't read it. Lots of good cocktail party stuff.

Aw man... Embarrassing. My CUF time has been limited lately -- should have known a book like that would have been discussed here.

Just read a book called Ghost Soldiers about a World War II rescue from a POW camp in the Philippines. It was a good follow-up book to Unbroken.

Makes me feel very grateful to the WWII generation and the fact that I won't ever have to endure the horrors of war.

[MarkGrace]

The devil in the white city.

[happyone]

Finished Scorecasting - very interesting read, enjoyed it alot. Thanks to ERCoug and CardiacCoug for recommending it. It really skewers the "conventional wisdom" of sports by looking at the stats. It was a good change of pace from Bloodlands. I really liked their take on why the Cubs are always so bad.

Currently reading

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/King-Kings-Book-Warrior-Rome/dp/1590203550/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303736965&sr=1-2"]Amazon.com: King of Kings: Book Two of Warrior of Rome (9781590203552): Harry Sidebottom: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wA-4-dixL.@@AMEPARAM@@51wA-4-dixL[/ame]

This is the second volume of a trilogy set in the mid 3rd century eastern roman empire

[SportUTE]

"The Myth of the Rational Voter" by Bryan Caplan. Has anyone else read it?

[eldiente]

Just finished

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Company-Keep-Husband---Wife-True-Life/dp/0307588149/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303858356&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: The Company We Keep: A Husband-and-Wife True-Life Spy Story (9780307588142): Robert Baer, Dayna Baer: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JUioetEtL.@@AMEPARAM@@51JUioetEtL[/ame]

so, so.