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  • NY Times Article on Dissaffected Swedish Area Authority

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/us...nted=all&_r=1&

    Greg Prince, a Mormon historian and businessman in Washington who has held local leadership positions in the church, shares Mr. Mattsson’s doubts. “Consider a Catholic cardinal suddenly going to the media and saying about his own church, ‘I don’t buy a lot of this stuff,’ ” Mr. Prince said. “That’s the level we’re talking about here.”

    He said of Mr. Mattsson, “He is, as far as I know, the highest-ranking church official who has gone public with deep concerns, who has had a faith crisis and come forward to say he’s going to talk about it because maybe that will help us all to resolve it.”
    Anyone heard of this guy?

    Kind of surprised he didn't know about some this stuff.
    "There is no creature more arrogant than a self-righteous libertarian on the web, am I right? Those folks are just intolerable."
    "It's no secret that the great American pastime is no longer baseball. Now it's sanctimony." -- Guy Periwinkle, The Nix.
    "Juilliardk N I ibuprofen Hyu I U unhurt u" - creekster

  • #2
    I could see where a Swedish member could be heavily reliant on official church publications. Just because of a lack of information in his own language.
    "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
    "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
    - SeattleUte

    Comment


    • #3
      This is tremendous. What a great man.
      That which may be asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence. -C. Hitchens

      http://twitter.com/SoonerCoug

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
        I could see where a Swedish member could be heavily reliant on official church publications. Just because of a lack of information in his own language.
        Cheap furniture, cheap testimonies
        "I'm anti, can't no government handle a commando / Your man don't want it, Trump's a bitch! I'll make his whole brand go under,"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
          I could see where a Swedish member could be heavily reliant on official church publications. Just because of a lack of information in his own language.
          This is right on the money. Curious, intellectual types in the US have ready access to all kinds of information to the church: correlated, faithful but uncorrelated, (relatively) impartial, critical, openly hostile, etc. It's tough enough for those that have access to all sorts of information to navigate through this stuff. But for foreign members that have relied on correlated materials and suddenly come upon stuff on the internet, it has to be devastating.

          Correlation may be a necessary evil for administrative purposes, but doctrinal and historical correlation will likely present challenges for generations to come as more savvy foreign members come to question and then resent the simplified and highly misleading version of LDS history that they get from official manuals. I would be surprised if Elder Mattsson were the first Area Authority to go through a crisis like this--although he may be the most public in recent memory--and he certainly won't be the last.
          Last edited by Harry Tic; 07-21-2013, 05:04 AM.
          Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.
          --William Blake, via Shpongle

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
            Anyone heard of this guy?

            Kind of surprised he didn't know about some this stuff.
            He was recently interviewed on mormon stories...

            http://mormonstories.org/hans-mattsson/

            I haven't listen to this yet, however.

            Your surprised when the church does things like takes out any mention of polygamy in their official Brigham Young manual?

            There is some very interesting data on why folks leave the church in this presentation...



            It seems the rate of people leaving the church corresponds to high speed internet and social media deployment as pointed out in one of the slides in this presentation. Maybe he is a late adopter in this technology.
            "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
            "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
            "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
            GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Commando View Post
              Cheap furniture, cheap testimonies
              Funny.

              So is this Grant Palmer's doubting GA?

              We had an interesting conversation about the 1978 revelation while driving in the car yestereday. Noah was pretty open about how the whole practice bothered him, quoting many of BY's zingers on race. Our children are totally blown away that such a thing happened. It's hard for them to process this part of The Church's history given the world in which they grew up and were raised. I welcome these opportunities and am happy for them.

              During a recent leadership training broadcast I recall Elder Nelson discussing this matter in what I thought was a fairly reconciliatory fashion. People were given the opportunity to submit questions, any questions, before hand and this was raised. It was refreshing to hear that. When I get home I'll try to dig up my notes.
              Last edited by myboynoah; 07-21-2013, 08:27 AM.
              Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

              For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still.

              Not long ago an obituary appeared in the Salt Lake Tribune that said the recently departed had "died doing what he enjoyed most—watching BYU lose."

              Comment


              • #8
                This explains why the Mormon Expositor podcast has such a high Swedish listenership. They mentioned it a while back.

                And if this is Grant Palmer's seventy, really, Grant?
                Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
                  This explains why the Mormon Expositor podcast has such a high Swedish listenership. They mentioned it a while back.
                  And why Marlin K. Jensen and Richard E. Turley Jr. held a special fireside for disaffected Swedish LDS Saints.
                  "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                  "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                  "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                  GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I skimmed through the transcript of Marlin Jensen and Richard Turley speaking to the Swedish members. My first impression was how unprepared they were to answer their questions. Most answers boiled down to 'we're not sure', or 'the evidence is murky'. When that seemed to not satisfy the questioner, they fell back on their own testimony. I assume this method will work with people who want to stay connected to the church. But it certainly won't help others who just want to follow where they feel the truth leads them.

                    Marlin Jensen seems like an honest and caring man. He related how disturbed his daughter was after attending the temple for the first time. So I'm glad he acknowledges the existence of problems in the church.
                    "...you pointy-headed autopsy nerd. Do you think it's possible for you to post without using words like "hilarious," "absurd," "canard," and "truther"? Your bare assertions do not make it so. Maybe your reasoning is too stunted and your vocabulary is too limited to go without these epithets."
                    "You are an intemperate, unscientific poster who makes light of very serious matters.”
                    - SeattleUte

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Northwestcoug View Post
                      I skimmed through the transcript of Marlin Jensen and Richard Turley speaking to the Swedish members. My first impression was how unprepared they were to answer their questions. Most answers boiled down to 'we're not sure', or 'the evidence is murky'. When that seemed to not satisfy the questioner, they fell back on their own testimony. I assume this method will work with people who want to stay connected to the church. But it certainly won't help others who just want to follow where they feel the truth leads them.

                      Marlin Jensen seems like an honest and caring man. He related how disturbed his daughter was after attending the temple for the first time. So I'm glad he acknowledges the existence of problems in the church.
                      Looks like they were facing at least one hostile questioner, if not more. I say that in their defense, but I think poor Bro Turley in particular came off as quite evasive. My reading, of course.
                      Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Commando View Post
                        Cheap furniture, cheap testimonies
                        haha
                        So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
                          And if this is Grant Palmer's seventy, really, Grant?
                          Doesn't seem like this is the guy, but who knows.
                          So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I served in Sweden and know of Hans Mattson, but never met him. This falling away saddens me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LiveCoug View Post
                              I served in Sweden and know of Hans Mattson, but never met him. This falling away saddens me.
                              It seems like he's still in the church.

                              “I felt like I had an earthquake under my feet,” said Mr. Mattsson, now an emeritus area authority.
                              The Mattssons have tried other churches, but they are still attached to their Mormon faith.
                              So Russell...what do you love about music? To begin with, everything.

                              Comment

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