NY Times Article on Dissaffected Swedish Area Authority

[Uncle Ted]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone post a link to any church produced document (lesson manual, GA book, CES course, movie, video clip, online resource, etc.) that discusses Joseph's polygamy? I'm really just curious if one exists.

The church manual Truth Restored implies that Joseph Smith practiced polygamy although it leaves out the details...

https://www.lds.org/manual/truth-res...rance?lang=eng

[Shaka]

The following is a line by line transcription of the letter by Joseph Smith to Newel K. Whitney, his wife and daughter, dated August 18th, 1842. They were to "burn this letter as soon as you read it," this instruction they did not keep.

LETTER BY JOSEPH SMITH TO NEWEL K. WHITNEY, HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER.

PAGE ONE
LINE TEXT
1 Nauvoo, August 18th 1842
2 Dear, and Beloved, Brother and
3 Sister, Whitney, and & c.--
4 I take this opportunity to communicate,
5 Some of my feelings, privetely at
6 this time, which I want you three
7 Eternaly to keep in your own
8 bosams; for my feelings are so
9 Strong for you Since what has
10 pased lately between us, that the
11 time of my abscence from you
12 Seems so long, and dreary, that
13 it Seems, as if I could not live
if you
14 long in this way; and ^ Three would
15 come and See me in this my lonely
16 retreat, it would afford me great
17 relief, of mind, if those with whom
18 I am alied, do love me, now is the
19 time to afford me succour; in the
20 days of exile, for you know I
21 foretold you of these things. I am
22 now at Carlos Graingers, Just back
23 of Brother Hyrums farm, it is only one
24 mile from town, the nights are
25 very pleasant, indeed, all three of
can
26 you come^ and See me in the
27 fore part of the night, let Brother
28 Whitney come a little a head, and
29 nock at the south East corner of
the
30 the house att ^ window; it is next to
31 the cornfield; I have a room inti-
32 -rely by myself, the whole matter
33 can be attended to with most perfect
know
34 Safty, I ^ it is the will of God that you
me
35 should comfort ^ now in this time
36 of affliction, or not at all, now is the

PAGE TWO
LINE TEXT
1 time or never, but I hav no kneed of saying
2 any such thing, to you, for I know the
3 goodness of your hearts, and that you
4 will do the will of the Lord, when it is
5 made known to you; the only thing
6 to be careful of, is to find out when
7 Emma comes then you cannot be
8 Safe, but when She is not here, there
9 is the most perfect Safty: only be
10 careful to escape observation, as
11 much as possible, I know it is a
12 heroick undertaking; but so much
13 the greater friendship, and the more
will
14 Joy, when I see you I ^ tell you all
15 my plans, I cannot write them on
16 paper, burn this letter as soon as you
17 read it; keep all locked up in
18 your breasts, my life depends up-
19 -on it. one thing I want to see you
to
20 for is ^ git the fulness of my blessing
21 Sealed upon our heads, &c. you
22 will pardon me for my ernest-
this subject
23 -ness on ^ when you consider how
24 lonesome I must be, your good
make
25 feelings know how to ^ every allow
26 -ance for me, I close my letter.
27 I think Emma wont come tonight
28 if she dont dont fail to come to
29 night, I subscribe myself your
and
30 most obedient, ^ affectionate,
31 Companion, and friend.
32 Joseph Smith

It's clear to me now that whoever wrote this letter also wrote the BoM.

[Indy Coug]

It's clear to me now that whoever wrote this letter also wrote the BoM.

That's what ran through my head while reading it. It was a heroick effort on his part.

[Pheidippides]

Yeah. I vaguely knew about polygamy but i believed it was because all of those helpless women lost their husbands in the Mormon battalion. I knew nothing of polyandry.

I honestly thought polygamy started with Brigham Young and was about taking care of all those poor widows from Haun's Mill. I learned that Joseph Smith was a polygamist from a photo caption in an AP news story about the Nauvoo Temple in the fall of 2002. It was the exact moment my religious world started to implode.

[jay santos]

I already stated I believed they wanted additional information and I have no problem with that. My point of contention is how Mattsson portrayed himself in the article as some vastly experienced member who had served a mission and many years of leadership experience in the church and miraculously only became aware of this stuff very recently.

I served a mission to England just like he did. Brits were always throwing this kind of stuff in my face when I was on my pre-internet mission; but none of it was a surprise because I had already been exposed to this stuff years beforehand. Do I believe for a second he didn't encounter this stuff while tracting 40, 50 or more hours a week? Not bloody likely. I think either he's being disingenuous or Ms. Goodstein decided to paint him as being a little more oblivious than he really was.

I haven't read all the Mattsson stuff closely. I think it's possible he was overstating his case on this stuff. But I generally take a huge exception with the idea you seem to be implying in the bolded area. As a youth, I think I was at least in the upper half in terms of awareness of these issues. I was active in the church my whole life, lived outside of Utah and in Utah, went to BYU, served a mission read a lot of church books, father was a BYU professor, etc. This was my awareness and assumptions on issues until relatively late in life (30'):

Joseph Smith polygamy: they were spiritual and none of them were sexual
Joseph Smith treasure seeking: anti-Mormon lies conflating seeking out the gold plates with actual treasure seeking and made up after the fact
First Vision account variation: anti-Mormon lies, nothing to it
Masonry/temple endowment: both rooted in Solomon's temple, so this actually confirms the truthfulness
BOM translation sketchiness: anti-Mormon lies, Joseph used the Urim and Thumim
BoA sketchiness: anti-Mormon lies, the real scrolls used in translation were lost and anti-Mormons are trying to make it seem like we have the scrolls when we don't

I can go on and on. Yes, I knew about all these issues. Yes, I had been faced with them. But really I had no real understanding of any of them. Mormons, especially back then, were encouraged to only use sanctioned resources to study the issues, and none of them gave an honest treatment. So to accuse other Mormons they should have known about these issues is very, very unfair.

[Uncle Ted]

I honestly thought polygamy started with Brigham Young and was about taking care of all those poor widows from Haun's Mill. I learned that Joseph Smith was a polygamist from a photo caption in an AP news story about the Nauvoo Temple in the fall of 2002. It was the exact moment my religious world started to implode.

LOL. It didn't strike you as odd that Brother Brigham had over 50 wives and less than 20 people died at Haun's Mill?

[Pheidippides]

LOL. It didn't strike you as odd that Brother Brigham had over 50 wives and less than 20 people died at Haun's Mill?

Self delusion is a hell of a drug.

[scottie]

Just out of curiosity, can anyone post a link to any church produced document (lesson manual, GA book, CES course, movie, video clip, online resource, etc.) that discusses Joseph's polygamy? I'm really just curious if one exists.

Since the time I learned about JS' polygamy I've wondered why BY seems to get the rap for it. I started this thread awhile ago wondering if the cause was that it wasn't revealed to the body of the church until after their arrival and settlement in SLC.

[SoonerCoug]

That's what ran through my head while reading it. It was a heroick effort on his part.

The BOM is rambling--just like the letter. Are you guys trying to imply that the BOM is written in good English or that it wasn't edited later?

[Indy Coug]

Since the time I learned about JS' polygamy I've wondered why BY seems to get the rap for it. I started this thread awhile ago wondering if the cause was that it wasn't revealed to the body of the church until after their arrival and settlement in SLC.

That's an easy question to answer.

1. The existence BY's of polygamy was completely public

2. The church's polygamy as a whole was public

3. It went on for decades, whereas JS' polygamy was relatively brief and almost completely private.

[Indy Coug]

The BOM is rambling--just like the letter. Are you guys trying to imply that the BOM is written in good English or that it wasn't edited later?

When I read the letter you copied and pasted, I can hear Moroni's voice boldly ringing in my head.

[SoonerCoug]

Random BOM passage:

1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the bguilty taketh the ctruth to be hard, for it dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5 And it came to pass that they did ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the avalley which he called Lemuel.
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the adaughters of Ishmael to bwife; and also, my brethren took of the cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to pass that as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11 And it came to pass that we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place aShazer.

[Harry Tic]

The BOM is rambling--just like the letter. Are you guys trying to imply that the BOM is written in good English or that it wasn't edited later?

I shudder to think what Donuthole's reaction would have been had he first encountered the BoM in its original manuscript form.

[jay santos]

I shudder to think what Donuthole's reaction would have been had he first encountered the BoM in its original manuscript form.

You missed a good opportunity there. Should have said "shutter to think". Come on, get with the program newbie.

[Harry Tic]

You missed a good opportunity there. Should have said "shutter to think". Come on, get with the program newbie.

Or, "would of been." I better that would have gotten his spider sense tingling as well. Sometimes I wonder if he has written some kind of script that screens all CS posts and automatically pings him if some bad grammer comes up.