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  1. #91
    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    You don’t think Amsterdam has a unique hyper-tourist vibe? Red light district, sex museums, weed, etc? Come on.
    Well I went there with my family so I must have missed all that fun.

    We enjoyed it. Nice European city with canals and waffles.

    Doesn't even have a Circus Circus, so I'm all ???? about the Vegas comparison.

    But you are correct that there are other awesome Dutch cities to explore.
    Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!!

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myboynoah View Post
    Well I went there with my family so I must have missed all that fun.

    We enjoyed it. Nice European city with canals and waffles.

    Doesn't even have a Circus Circus, so I'm all ???? about the Vegas comparison.

    But you are correct that there are other awesome Dutch cities to explore.
    Hedonism as a tourist attraction.

    The problem with analogies is that people sometimes expect a perfect match. That is not how analogies work.

    I like Amsterdam. Heading back in 2020. But I think Delft is my favorite. Esp. on a Saturday with the open market.
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  3. #93
    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    You don’t think Amsterdam has a unique hyper-tourist vibe? Red light district, sex museums, weed, etc? Come on.
    We took our kids there some years ago and somehow managed to avoid those things. Besides, lots of places have sex museums and weed and try pretty hard to pry money away from the tourists that wander by. I don't think Amsterdam is unique or excessive that way. And the red light district has been there for many years. There used to be a lot of red light districts in Europe, but Amsterdam is one of the few places where it still remains in a fairly defined area. When in AMsterdam with our kids we enjoyed taking bike tours around the city, including some based on art and commerce history, and also a couple that went out into the polders and visited dairies making Gouda. My wife and i have been there twice in the last 3-4 years and each time enjoyed what the city has to offer, including good food, atmosphere and art. I did not say that there are not other great places in the Netherlands to visit, but putting Vegas and Amsterdam in the same bucket is a bit weird, IMO.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    We took our kids there some years ago and somehow managed to avoid those things. Besides, lots of places have sex museums and weed and try pretty hard to pry money away from the tourists that wander by. I don't think Amsterdam is unique or excessive that way. And the red light district has been there for many years. There used to be a lot of red light districts in Europe, but Amsterdam is one of the few places where it still remains in a fairly defined area. When in AMsterdam with our kids we enjoyed taking bike tours around the city, including some based on art and commerce history, and also a couple that went out into the polders and visited dairies making Gouda. My wife and i have been there twice in the last 3-4 years and each time enjoyed what the city has to offer, including good food, atmosphere and art. I did not say that there are not other great places in the Netherlands to visit, but putting Vegas and Amsterdam in the same bucket is a bit weird, IMO.
    It is funny to me that my comment has stirred up some many responses. You keep missing my point, so I will stop trying to explain it. Carry on.

    And Lol @ you folks living in Vegas. I guess a comparison to Vegas is seen as a real insult!
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    Bald not naked Pelado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Hedonism...Heading back in 2020.
    fify - you had a lot of superfluous words.
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    My Mic Sounds Nice falafel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    It is funny to me that my comment has stirred up some many responses. You keep missing my point, so I will stop trying to explain it. Carry on.

    And Lol @ you folks living in Vegas. I guess a comparison to Vegas is seen as a real insult!
    And hot as hell to boot! What in the world are we doing here?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    It is funny to me that my comment has stirred up some many responses. You keep missing my point, so I will stop trying to explain it. Carry on.

    And Lol @ you folks living in Vegas. I guess a comparison to Vegas is seen as a real insult!
    I said nothing about Vegas, I just think it has nothing in common with Amsterdam. So I guess you used that comparison because you really wanted to compliment Amsterdam?
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak View Post
    I'm in Munich right now with three teenagers (2 girls, 1 boy).

    We did Neuschwanstein yesterday. Was on girls bucket list. Boy seemed happy enough. Today we are doing a Hitler walking tour and Dachau. Son loves any/all WW2 stuff; girls not so much. The carrot is that we will go shopping tonight.
    On the Hitler sites - Berchtesgaden and the Eagles nest is worth a visit. It is also close to Salzburg, Mozart's birthplace

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    Quote Originally Posted by happyone View Post
    On the Hitler sites - Berchtesgaden and the Eagles nest is worth a visit. It is also close to Salzburg, Mozart's birthplace
    I spent the last part of my mission in Bad Reichenhall, equidistant between Berchtesgaden and Salzburg, and then in Salzburg itself for the final month (lived next to the manse that served as the Von Trapp home in Sound of Music). We spent a fair amount of time rooting around Eagles Nest, the nearby General Walker Hotel (used by visiting Nazi leaders) and the adjacent SS barracks, most of which have since been torn down. To the south, we visited Werfen Castle, the setting for Where Eagles Dare. That area may be my favorite place on earth. I'm looking forward to next June when we'll serve there as tour guides for our oldest daughter's family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I spent the last part of my mission in Bad Reichenhall, equidistant between Berchtesgaden and Salzburg, and then in Salzburg itself for the final month (lived next to the manse that served as the Von Trapp home in Sound of Music). We spent a fair amount of time rooting around Eagles Nest, the nearby General Walker Hotel (used by visiting Nazi leaders) and the adjacent SS barracks, most of which have since been torn down. To the south, we visited Werfen Castle, the setting for Where Eagles Dare. That area may be my favorite place on earth. I'm looking forward to next June when we'll serve there as tour guides for our oldest daughter's family.
    While my family was in Germany, the semi-annual Mormon Serviceman's Retreats were held in Berchtesgaden. When my family went, we always stayed at the Gen Walker. When the Army downsized in the early 90's most of the Army stuff was closed and torn down. We went 4 or 5 times while we lived in Germany. One year Dad decided to blow off the afternoon session, take the family and hike up to the Eagles Nest (EN) starting at the Gen Walker. My brother and I got into a race. We got to the top about 30-40 minutes ahead of the family, just as the visiting GAs were coming out of the EN. The Germany South MP would not let us stay and wait for the rest of the family, so we rode down with them on their bus. That night at dinner time family wasn't back so my brother and I were invited to have dinner with Elder Hinkley and Elder Ashton along with the GS MP. If I have my dates right, it was probably about the same time you were wandering around Austria - Oct 1972.
    Last edited by happyone; 08-13-2019 at 07:17 PM.

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    Semper infra dignitatem PaloAltoCougar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happyone View Post
    When my family went to Berchtesgaden, we always stayed at the Gen Walker. When the Army downsized in the early 90's most of the Army stuff was closed and torn down. We went 4 or 5 times while we lived in Germany. The semi-annual Mormon Serviceman's Retreats were held there. One time Dad decided to blow off the afternoon session, take the family and hike up to the Eagles Nest (EN) starting at the Gen Walker. My brother and I got into a race. We got to the top about 30 minutes ahead of the family, just as the visiting GA were coming out of the EN and rode down with them on their bus and that night my brother and I had dinner with Elder Hinkley and Elder Ashton. If I have my dates right, it was probably about the same time you were wandering around Austria.
    I spoke with then-apostle Hinckley when he visited the mission (with Pres. Lee) in August '73, so maybe? And nice memories about your visit... The General Walker hotel, run by the U.S. armed forces, may have been the top R&R destination for European personnel. During my time there, we were teaching an American soldier who had been a draft dodger in Canada but thought better of it and submitted himself to the Selective Service. His assignment? He served as the lifeguard at the General Walker Hotel in the summer and as head of the ski patrol during the winter. "Man, I can't believe I was avoiding the draft when I get to do this!," he often told us. Of course, some of his contemporaries didn't fare as well.

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    Anybody been to the Galapagos before? Did you scuba dive while there?
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    Senior Member myboynoah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    The problem with analogies is that people sometimes expect a perfect match. That is not how analogies work.
    I didn't expect a perfect match, but the Amsterdam/Vegas analogy surprised me based on my experience. There is much more to Amsterdam than hedonism. Vegas exists for the hedonism (plus it's kitschy, plastic, and hot as hell).
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaloAltoCougar View Post
    I spoke with then-apostle Hinckley when he visited the mission (with Pres. Lee) in August '73, so maybe? And nice memories about your visit... The General Walker hotel, run by the U.S. armed forces, may have been the top R&R destination for European personnel. During my time there, we were teaching an American soldier who had been a draft dodger in Canada but thought better of it and submitted himself to the Selective Service. His assignment? He served as the lifeguard at the General Walker Hotel in the summer and as head of the ski patrol during the winter. "Man, I can't believe I was avoiding the draft when I get to do this!," he often told us. Of course, some of his contemporaries didn't fare as well.
    We came home in the Summer of '73, when dad left the Army. Yes they are good memories.

    I wish I had taken advantage of my brothers being stationed in Germany in the 90s and early 00s. One was in Heidelberg and the other Garmish!

    When I retire...

    Speaking of cushy jobs in the Viet Nam era military, we had a kid in our branch who was the afternoon DJ for AFN Nuremberg

    As to the last statement - don't I know it
    Last edited by happyone; 08-13-2019 at 08:36 PM.

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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by falafel View Post
    And hot as hell to boot! What in the world are we doing here?!
    Because it is super nice in the winter!
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    I said nothing about Vegas, I just think it has nothing in common with Amsterdam. So I guess you used that comparison because you really wanted to compliment Amsterdam?
    This was my original quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    People going to the Netherlands and only seeing Amsterdam is like coming to the USA and only visiting Vegas.
    For that analogy to work, Vegas and Amsterdam don't even need to be similar. They just need to be unique enough that only visiting that city would give a skewed view of the country. I could have used New York or New Orleans and it would have worked.

    Unless of course you are super pedantic and you feel compelled to nitpick trivial stuff like this to death.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    This was my original quote:



    For that analogy to work, Vegas and Amsterdam don't even need to be similar. They just need to be unique enough that only visiting that city would give a skewed view of the country. I could have used New York or New Orleans and it would have worked.

    Unless of course you are super pedantic and you feel compelled to nitpick trivial stuff like this to death.
    Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

    I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

    I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.
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  19. #109
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    Of course your original quote was not at all what you ended up saying. And if all you meant was saying that visiting one city of a nation might result in a skewed view of that country, you could say that for almost any large city in almost any developed nation. But you picked Vegas for the comparison, claimed that this specific comparison was made all the time by your Dutch friends, and referred to sex museums and red light districts, etc., to make your specific Vegas-themed point. You tell me that I missed your point, but you never asserted it could have been ANY city until now, which is sort of curious if that was always your point. And, now, apparently deciding that maybe the comparison wasn't so great, you retreat to the "original" position and claim that all the ensuing discussion was due to my super pedantic and nitpicking comments (you didn't actually say it was me, and I suppose it might have been the others that also disagreed with your observation, but somehow I am pretty sure the passive voice was meant for me).

    I agree fully this was a minor thing. And it certainly doesn't merit this much discussion, but, to be honest, I get tired of being accused of pedantry and nitpicking (particularly when, as here, it was neither) whenever you are tired of an argument and do something so transparently silly as claim you never meant Vegas when that was the entire point of the discussion that you began and continued.
    Ha. No, I am not retreating from the vegas comparison. I am just saying that I could have used a different city to make the original point (I am guessing you would have nitpicked those comparisons). But I like vegas the best for the reasons stated. And like I said, I first heard the analogy from a dutch friend. Funny how that point didn't deter you from your doggedness.

    By the way, it appears that you need to get busy correcting a ton of people on the internet:

    https://dutchreview.com/featured/sin...sus-las-vegas/

    Amsterdam, NL and Las Vegas, Nevada both have the nickname Sin City. That’s right, “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas”. I propose a saying that “what happens in Amsterdam, no one gives a rip”. Either way, you crawl away with reputation intact (somehow). So how do the two with Sin City of the northern hemisphere reputations stack up for a visit, not just in “adult entertainment” aspects?
    Sin City of the world list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_City_(description)

    The Netherlands
    Amsterdam (prostitution, brothels, strip clubs, sex shops, sex shows, marijuana consumption)[3][6]
    Top 10 Sin Cities: Amsterdam = #3 Sin City. Vegas = #5

    http://top-10-list.org/2013/02/03/top-10-sin-cities/

    Those wankers in Vegas need to get busy. Two spots behind.
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    lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.

  21. #111
    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.
    Yes! I agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yes! I agree.
    Sure you agree. But not enough to leave it alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Ha. No, I am not retreating from the vegas comparison. I am just saying that I could have used a different city to make the original point (I am guessing you would have nitpicked those comparisons). But I like vegas the best for the reasons stated. And like I said, I first heard the analogy from a dutch friend. Funny how that point didn't deter you from your doggedness.

    By the way, it appears that you need to get busy correcting a ton of people on the internet:

    https://dutchreview.com/featured/sin...sus-las-vegas/



    Sin City of the world list:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_City_(description)



    Top 10 Sin Cities: Amsterdam = #3 Sin City. Vegas = #5

    http://top-10-list.org/2013/02/03/top-10-sin-cities/

    Those wankers in Vegas need to get busy. Two spots behind.

    Amazing. "It doesn't need to be Vegas but see all the people that agree that Vegas is the same?" Those links (one by the noted writer "guest author") might be useful if you want to suggest that prostitution and marijuana are both available in Amsterdam. I would not have 'nitpicked' that claim. The problem is that you didn't make that claim. In fact, now you insist that YOUR point doesn't require the Vegas analogy. If that is true, then the similarities are irrelevant. The only pertinent factor is whether or not the city is typical of the rest of the country. It looks like you are ready and willing to use any argument, in any way, as long as you can claim you won. Good job.

    One can visit both Amsterdam and Vegas and not use drugs or frequent prostitutes. This stands to reason and is consistent with my personal experience (and yours, I assume). The question we were talking about, I thought, was whether Amsterdam is 'like' Vegas. It is not. No one arrives in Amsterdam the first time and thinks "Yup, just like Vegas." It is just not a good comparison (and not even a comparison made in the links you are now posting, which claim only that you can engage in some vice there more easily).

    But the most amazing thing, perhaps, is that you continue to assert that I am too willing to argue and am too much of a mitpicker, etc., but then you go out and find links and quote them and make inconsistent arguments at great length. Whatever.

    Look, if you or anyone want to think of Amsterdam as being like Vegas, go ahead. It's a foolish comparison, but you are entitled to it. If you want to say "don't judge the Netherlands based on the availability of hash and hookers in Amsterdam" you are making a good point, and I don't disagree. But it would be nice if you decide what you mean before you say it.
    Last edited by creekster; 08-14-2019 at 09:31 AM.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Yes! I agree.
    Stupid is as stupid does.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    As a change of topic:

    I am planning a trip to Germany. I think we will drive from Koln north up through Bremerhaven, Lubeck and then over to Berlin, before going South to Leipzig and Wittenberg. Does anyone have any suggestions for stops in Northern Germany, any Hanseatic League 'cant miss' places to see? Or even specific suggestions for towns to stay over in? TIA.
    Last edited by creekster; 08-14-2019 at 09:50 AM.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    ... too much of a mitpicker...
    The biggest Mittpicker on here is mbn. He writes in Mitt for everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YOhio View Post
    lol this is so stupid. JL and creek will argue about absolutely anything.
    JL and Creek arguments are the best!

    It just occurred to me that JL and Creek realized that contention brings eyeballs and these spats are one way to prop up flagging site visitor counts. Even though I now know the arguments are manufactured à la Jerry Springer, I will still tune in.
    Last edited by Lost Student; 08-14-2019 at 09:51 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    As a change of topic:

    I am planning a trip to Germany. I think we will drive from Koln north up through Bremerhaven, Lubeck and then over to Berlin, before going South to Leipzig and Wittenberg. Does anyone have any suggestions for stops in Northern Germany, any Hanseatic League 'cant miss' places to see? Or even specific suggestions for towns to stay over in? TIA.
    I would consider Hansastadt Hannover, the origin of Hoch Deutsch. I'd consider including Dresden as well, but Leipzig is purportedly better.
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    The dude abides Jeff Lebowski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creekster View Post
    As a change of topic:

    I am planning a trip to Germany. I think we will drive from Koln north up through Bremerhaven, Lubeck and then over to Berlin, before going South to Leipzig and Wittenberg. Does anyone have any suggestions for stops in Northern Germany, any Hanseatic League 'cant miss' places to see? Or even specific suggestions for towns to stay over in? TIA.
    Years ago my wife and I were in Munich, Germany and it happened to be Oktoberfest so we went over the park and took in the spectacle. People were super friendly of course, and we had to turn down a lot of beer. One of the Germans asked, "How do you like our Bavarian Disneyland?"

    You need to be ready for that. Sweet Jesus, they don't even have Dole Whip.
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    It is NOT a monkey! creekster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski View Post
    Years ago my wife and I were in Munich, Germany and it happened to be Oktoberfest so we went over the park and took in the spectacle. People were super friendly of course, and we had to turn down a lot of beer. One of the Germans asked, "How do you like our Bavarian Disneyland?"

    You need to be ready for that. Sweet Jesus, they don't even have Dole Whip.
    Thanks for the info, but having done bavaria already a few times, we are planning to go north.
    PLesa excuse the tpyos.

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