Neal A. Maxwell, 1978, on Secularism (with obvious applicability to our time)

[New Mexican Disaster]

I just don't see that. I don't think victimhood is part of our culture. I do not recall hearing my Primary or Seminary teachers talk much about anti-LDS persecution. There's no "Remember Haun's Mill" cry that I am aware of. Persecution is part of our history, yes, but I don't think we dwell on it. Just my view. Obviously you see it differently?

Different church than I grew up in and went too. Victimhood and a sense of persecution were very present.

[LA Ute]

Different church than I grew up in and went too. Victimhood and a sense of persecution were very present.

That is interesting, and evokes this question: Do we get that message in lesson manuals, conference talks, CES curricula, and the like? I think not, which tells me it's a cultural thing bubbling up from the members that, if you're right, we probably need to do something about.

[New Mexican Disaster]

That is interesting, and evokes this question: Do we get that message in lesson manuals, conference talks, CES curricula, and the like? I think not, which tells me it's a cultural thing bubbling up from the members that, if you're right, we probably need to do something about.

I was a little terse in my comments because I think that the sense of persecution has ebbed greatly in the span of my lifetime (32 years, about 25 of which I was paying attention). I think it reflects a level of complacency about our place in America that is maybe just as unrealistic as was the sense of persecution that I perceived.

Of course, perception may be cemented to time and place as well.

[SeattleUte]

Mormons' sense of victimhood is understandable. Mormonism in many respects represents the last stand against secularism. That is to many its very appeal.

[New Mexican Disaster]

Mormons' sense of victimhood is understandable. Mormonism in many respects represents the last stand against secularism. That is to many its very appeal.

It is also understandable in the sense that we were chased out of Illinois and Missouri. (Not that we were the easiest folks to live with...)

[SeattleUte]

It is also understandable in the sense that we were chased out of Illinois and Missouri. (Not that we were the easiest folks to live with...)

My family goes back seven generations in Mormonism (mother's side). The persecution and trek west, etc. in the Ninetheenth Century certainly resonates as a powerful founding epic. But it's not the reason Mormons feel persecuted today, in my opinion.

[YOhio]

That is interesting, and evokes this question: Do we get that message in lesson manuals, conference talks, CES curricula, and the like? I think not, which tells me it's a cultural thing bubbling up from the members that, if you're right, we probably need to do something about.

"When all that was promised, the Saints will be given, and none will molest them from morn until eve."

"The Wicked who fight against Zion, shall never such happiness know."

"Where none shall come, to hurt or make afraid."

[New Mexican Disaster]

My family goes back seven generations in Mormonism (mother's side). The persecution and trek west, etc. in the Ninetheenth Century certainly resonates as a powerful founding epic. But it's not the reason Mormons feel persecuted today, in my opinion.

I agree. But I think it should be viewed as an extremely cautionary tale against involvement in the hottest areas in the political sphere, especially fighting against inevitable things like Prop 8.

I think the general angst is more of a generic Christian "there all out to get us" mindset. Without a clear understanding that the other Christians that we sympathize with see us as freaks.

[RobinFinderson]

I just don't see that. I don't think victimhood is part of our culture. I do not recall hearing my Primary or Seminary teachers talk much about anti-LDS persecution. There's no "Remember Haun's Mill" cry that I am aware of. Persecution is part of our history, yes, but I don't think we dwell on it. Just my view. Obviously you see it differently?

Just for the record, I don't think that any religion built around the suffering, torture and murder of a single being more than 2000 years ago can claim that victimhood is not part of its culture. I'm just sayin!

[LA Ute]

"When all that was promised, the Saints will be given, and none will molest them from morn until eve."

"The Wicked who fight against Zion, shall never such happiness know."

"Where none shall come, to hurt or make afraid."

Good points, but my focus is on what is currently being taught. Hymns are part of that, but the ones you are quoting are very old. (Still, you're right, that's part of the culture.)