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Thread: Another City Creek?

  1. #1

    Default Another City Creek?

    I came across this article the other day and wanted to know if anyone had any insight as to what it means.

    In the middle of an article in the Orlando Sentinel (which I'm assuming is a semi-respectable/responsible paper) from January 24th of this year titled "Mormon Church Could Block Orlando-to-Miami Train" it reads:

    The church, which has plans for a mixed-used development on 19,000 acres close to the airport and the Medical City complex, could use 48-year-old agreement to press for access to the train or to the BeachLine.
    What I'm wondering is, what does "mixed-used development" mean? To me "mixed-use" (I think that's really how it should read) means apartments, offices, shopping, etc. a la City Creek Center. There's even mention of putting a train stop in there. Is the Church's real estate arm looking to replicate City Creek in other locations across the country? If so, shouldn't this be a major news story? Was it and I just missed it?

  2. #2

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    Also, I should mention that 19,000 acres is approximately 30 square miles, which would be an enormous development. There's no way that they're developing 19,000 acres. 1,900 possibly, but not 19,000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    I came across this article the other day and wanted to know if anyone had any insight as to what it means.

    In the middle of an article in the Orlando Sentinel (which I'm assuming is a semi-respectable/responsible paper) from January 24th of this year titled "Mormon Church Could Block Orlando-to-Miami Train" it reads:



    What I'm wondering is, what does "mixed-used development" mean? To me "mixed-use" (I think that's really how it should read) means apartments, offices, shopping, etc. a la City Creek Center. There's even mention of putting a train stop in there. Is the Church's real estate arm looking to replicate City Creek in other locations across the country? If so, shouldn't this be a major news story? Was it and I just missed it?
    Mixed-used devolopment means a lot of different things. In some intances, it means a mix of low-medium-high end housing in a small space and retail/commercial use is ancillary to the residential. In others it focuses on mid density commercial use with retail space and limited residential surrounding.

    It could mean a City Creek, but it could mean something very different as well.
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  4. #4

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    Isn't that where the Church's huge cattle ranch is?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    Also, I should mention that 19,000 acres is approximately 30 square miles, which would be an enormous development. There's no way that they're developing 19,000 acres. 1,900 possibly, but not 19,000.
    They own all that land. It might (hopefully) mean they just want to protect the property value in case they sold it to a developer at a later date.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    It could mean they are building a new MTC - which I'm sure they'd love to have a train from the airport stopping at. Or they could be putting in another cannery to make more beef stew from the cows on their big ranch down there. Or something else.

    Or - it could be a new development with malls and houses.

    Who knows. Though it does make me go hmmmm.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    They own all that land. It might (hopefully) mean they just want to protect the property value in case they sold it to a developer at a later date.
    Most likely this. Just because the church owns 19,000 acres near Orlando doesn't mean they are planning on building a 19,000-acre development.
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  8. #8

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    City Creek would probably be a bad name for a development in Florida. City Swamp or something like that would be much better.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay santos View Post
    They own all that land. It might (hopefully) mean they just want to protect the property value in case they sold it to a developer at a later date.
    They own 300,000 acres down there. Why specifically mention the 19,000?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie View Post
    It could mean they are building a new MTC - which I'm sure they'd love to have a train from the airport stopping at. Or they could be putting in another cannery to make more beef stew from the cows on their big ranch down there. Or something else.

    Or - it could be a new development with malls and houses.

    Who knows. Though it does make me go hmmmm.
    Whatever mixed-use means, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean cannery. That would be a single use. Maybe MTC, since you would have people both living and working on the site, but I'm positive it doesn't mean cannery.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    They own 300,000 acres down there. Why specifically mention the 19,000?
    Did 19,000 of the 300,000 acres get re-zoned as mixed-use?
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    Senior Member Katy Lied's Avatar
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    I thought that a recent article on the church's cow/calf operation there included some speculation on the church developing some of the land.

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    Maybe the development will help to make the rest of the ranch financially viable.
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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Did 19,000 of the 300,000 acres get re-zoned as mixed-use?
    No idea. It would be interesting to know, but unfortunately I don't have the time to go poring over the property records of central Flordia counties.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    No idea. It would be interesting to know, but unfortunately I don't have the time to go poring over the property records of central Flordia counties.
    Don't we have Utes around for this purpose? Where did they go?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy Coug View Post
    Maybe the development will help to make the rest of the ranch financially viable.
    Is it not currently? They've owned the land and ranch for at least half a century, which is a long time to own it in an unviable way.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    Whatever mixed-use means, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean cannery. That would be a single use. Maybe MTC, since you would have people both living and working on the site, but I'm positive it doesn't mean cannery.
    What if it were a cannery that they wanted to have some apartment buildings near in order to ship older couples from Utah to live in while working at the cannery?

    Or what if there were some other operation in association with the cannery that fits a different zoning type? Maybe they want to build a stockyard to hold the cows before they knock them over the head and turn them into beef stew.

    I'm just saying it could be many things. Some of them more understandable than others - of course.

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    Senior Member Eddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    Is it not currently? They've owned the land and ranch for at least half a century, which is a long time to own it in an unviable way.
    Things can change. Maybe it used to be viable and is less so now.

    Or maybe Elder Jed was out shooting at some food and out from the ground came a bubbling crude...and they want to put in some wells.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Lied View Post
    I thought that a recent article on the church's cow/calf operation there included some speculation on the church developing some of the land.
    I'd be interested to see that if you come across it. The above article doesn't attribute the mention of a mixed-use development to anyone, just states it as a fact.

  20. #20

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    And the Church (or church owned real estate arm) develops real estate all over. City Creek may be the biggest and brightest, but it's certainly not the only. The Church is currently developing a large parcel out on the west side of the valley and owns a ton of land all around the airport that it has provisional plans for. In the northeast end of the Kansas City metro area the Church has developed very large areas with retail and residential.
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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by kccougar View Post
    And the Church (or church owned real estate arm) develops real estate all over. City Creek may be the biggest and brightest, but it's certainly not the only. The Church is currently developing a large parcel out on the west side of the valley and owns a ton of land all around the airport that it has provisional plans for. In the northeast end of the Kansas City metro area the Church has developed very large areas with retail and residential.
    Do their leases disallow alcohol sales like (I'm under the impression) City Creek does?

    I think I always assumed that the Church was more passive with its real estate holdings, i.e., buying undeveloped land, holding it, maybe putting welfare-oriented (cattle ranches, beet farms) or other church mission-promoting developments on it, and then later selling it to developers. Active, aggressive and even speculative real estate development never really crossed my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    Whatever mixed-use means, I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean cannery. That would be a single use. Maybe MTC, since you would have people both living and working on the site, but I'm positive it doesn't mean cannery.
    Am I the first person to think: BYU-Florida? Has a nice ring to it, no?
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperback Writer View Post
    Am I the first person to think: BYU-Florida? Has a nice ring to it, no?
    Make it a JC feeder school and I'm in.

  24. #24
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    Y'all are thinking too small. Mormon World Amusement Park.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ted View Post
    Y'all are thinking too small. Mormon World Amusement Park.
    That was my first thought. Book of Mormon Land. I mean, this is near Orlando right? It would be right next to Disney. They could have a tapir petting zoo next to the Pirates of Zarahemla boat ride.
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperback Writer View Post
    Am I the first person to think: BYU-Florida? Has a nice ring to it, no?
    Does this need to move to the Big-12 thread?

  27. #27
    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moliere View Post
    That was my first thought. Book of Mormon Land. I mean, this is near Orlando right? It would be right next to Disney. They could have a tapir petting zoo next to the Pirates of Zarahemla boat ride.
    Dang it Moliere, I just spit water on my keyboard!
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by I.J. Reilly View Post
    What I'm wondering is, what does "mixed-used development" mean? To me "mixed-use" (I think that's really how it should read) means apartments, offices, shopping, etc. a la City Creek Center. There's even mention of putting a train stop in there. Is the Church's real estate arm looking to replicate City Creek in other locations across the country? If so, shouldn't this be a major news story? Was it and I just missed it?
    Yearning for Zion II?

    I initially think of something like the Daybreak community in the SLC area when I think of mixed-use developments of that size. They can have residential, retail, parks, schools, etc. I don't know what Orlando population growth is, but a community like that might have an interest in access to a rail line (which might explain why the author of the article mentions such interest). Like some have pointed out, that is a pretty big chunk of land, even for something like that.
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  29. #29
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    First there was City Creek... Now the church is building a city:

    Paul Rolly: Mormon church moves to build a city in Florida

    The Mormon church is going to Disney World.


    The church-owned Deseret Ranches is going through the bureaucratic process in Florida to win approval to transform rural farmland, used for 65 years to raise cattle, into a metropolis of a half-million residents within a 133,000-acre corner of Osceola County, not far from Orange County, the home of the world-renowned Disney resort in Orlando.


    According to the Orlando Sentinel, the project would be the biggest development ever planned in Florida. The Sentinel reported the Florida Department of Environmental Protection issued a statement saying the development would cause no "adverse impacts" to water, wetlands and wilderness.
    [...]
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/2709720-1...hurch-moves-to
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  30. #30
    a day late/a dollar short Sullyute's Avatar
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    I am trying to muster up some righteous indignation, or fiery fervor over this but all I am getting is 'meh'. The kingdom of God shall roll forth... blah, blah, blah.
    "Friendship is the grand fundamental principle of Mormonism" - Joseph Smith Jr.

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